In an exclusive Meet the Press interview, House Democratic Leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., tells David Gregory that the GOP’s call for repealing the health care law is unrealistic. Full interview airs Sunday on Meet the Press.
Transcript:
DAVID GREGORY: Republicans have said they won't waste any time to try to repeal this. Is that fantasy from your point of view?
NANCY PELOSI: It's being the mouthpiece of the health insurance industry. And we're saying let's not have them be in charge anymore. Let the people be in charge of how they receive coverage and health care. It's -- they'll bring it up, and when they bring it up they will ask for repeal, repeal of all the things I said that help children, help young adults, help seniors, help men or women who may have prostate cancer, breast cancer, whatever it is, any precondition. And everybody will have lower rates, better quality care and better access. So that's what they want to repeal, we're happy to have that debate.
DAVID GREGORY: So you don't think it's realistic -- I mean, look, you fought in the trenches to get this thing passed, it wasn't easy. Do you think repeal is unrealistic, it --
NANCY PELOSI: Yes.
DAVID GREGORY: -- You know, from Mitt Romney, to Republican leaders, they say, "We're gonna lead the charge on this"?
NANCY PELOSI: I think that that part of it is over. Do we always want to fight for more and better? We want to continue to lower costs, and we built that in to the health care, Affordable Care Act.
Leave a Comment:
The GOP are all lackeys for the corporations,,,who left to their own devices would see us all as mere slaves to their whims....Obama is not the greatest president but right now he is the lesser of 2 evils...Romney and his crowd of big spenders (Koch Bros and all the other Billionaires)are trying to buy this election and I think we must vote for Obama if nothing else to prove that American voters cannot not be bought out by big money..and if Romney wins we will all suffer..our government will be lost to the upper 1% we will never be able to take it back...Obama must win to defeat the money..
Heard that, bro. Money can buy a lot of things, but it can't buy pride, respect, and freedom.
Back in the day, it never used to be about money. Now? That's all it's ever about. We need to vote Obama. Romney's eyes are so focused on the economy, he's dodging every other issue.
Presidents don't just focus on one area - they focus on ALL of it. America is not a corporation - it is a nation. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And trust me - if Romney attempts to "bribe" or "rig" this election, the people will show him how we feel. I'll be voting Obama. If he claims to "win by unanimous decision" or a "landslide", I will show him my vote. I will expose his fraud, and he will die, burning in a pot of molten gold.
Really? Do you really think Obama (or any modern president) isn't about money? How many paint chips did you eat as a kid?
Oh joy....Mrs. Pelosi is gonna give the American people more of her "words of wisdom".
Maybe Mr. Biden will join her on the set since he knows how to "grow plants without water, light, or soil".
akita96th....tell that to Mr. Soros, Mr. Obama's deep pockets, about "buying" elections.
I would rather be in Soros pockets than the vile, corrupt, evil pockets of the Koch Brothers like every single republican politician. Republicans sold their souls to the devil.
Soros cares about Poor and Middle Class Americans while Koch bothers only care about rich people and corporations. The Koch bothers and Republican politicians only want the middle class and poor as slave labor for their businesses.
Dumbest post of the day. Good job Sandy. Now tell us about the Koch Brothers, their names, where they were born, how many jobs they provide the American people. Go ahead.
Sorry, commie. You get the prize for the worst post of the day. Maybe the month.
Tell it like it is, Nancy. It's about time.
Sandy, your ignorance is showing. Thoros does not care about poor people and the middle class. Like anybody else that has the money he does, he cares about his money. It's all about power. The more money he feeds to the people he likes, the better chance he has of putting them in power and to get what he says he needs when the time comes. Koch brothers or Thoros, it's all about money and power. To say Republican politicians only want the middle class and poor as slave labor is nonsense. I think even you don't really believe that.
Yes, I'm sure he does. As does every clear-minded person. Why do you think they want to repeal the minimum wage? To make life better for everyone?
Republicans don't want to raise the quality of life in other countries. They want to lower ours to China's. That's why they keep moving their businesses there. As an example of what they expect from America.
Yes, everyone knows it is better to be lackeys for those like Warren Buffet and Peter Lewis.,
I don't recall them backing the Republicans. Nor do I recall the Koch brothers asking to have their taxes increased.
Soros pockets cant be any deeper than the Koch brothers and the evil Carl Roe regime. Thank you @ akita96
The Democratic politicians may be wealthy, but at least they vote for or support things that benefit those who are not rich - the poor and middle class. This healthcare law is a perfect example. Its not the Democrats that want to end Social Security and Medicare for those making average wages, it's the rich Republicans who won't need it that want to get rid of and/or privatize them. At least the Democrats want to look after Americans who are not as financially privileged as they are. A few Democratic politicians may be self-serving, but they are not nearly as self-serving as the rich Republicans are.
The proper term is "oligarchy." It means a two tiered society of rich and poor, a government controlled be a handful of powerful monied entitled slobs, (--sorry about the slobs thing - it's late and I couldn't think of a neutral term for the Romney, Koch brothers, GOP governor click that presently thinks the Mussolini fascist experiment should be retried--)
A strong middle class is essential for the American experience. Unions, "fair and equitable taxation" (a Bill Clinton phrase), decent public education, decent wages, health care that doesn't bankrupt the sick are a necessary part of that equation. (All under attack by TeaParty Governors who will be tossed out with the trash as soon as they fulfill their marching orders.)
It is ironic that the individual mandate was a Heritage Foundation and Republican Party idea put into practice by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts and now found abhorrent by the same people after a Democratic President and Congress got it off the ground nationwide two years ago.
I think the individual mandate was part of a big plot, a poison pill, the Republicans dreamed up to make health care reform unpalatable to the Democrats and the American people and I think they miscalculated. It was the only thing that could be muscled in place and they never dreamed the chief justice of the SC would find the logic to make it past constitutional muster.
LOL
Those that are subject to the Tax for failure to purchase healthcare insurance when they CAN afford it, are trying to get their healthcare for free - in other words are Free Loaders.
Those that CAN NOT afford insurance WILL NOT be Taxed and WILL BE SUBSIDIZED.
The law requires you to be RESPONSIBLE. Of course the GOP would be against that.
Anyone care to talk about all the health insurance companies that were in private meetings at the White house?
All the meetings are logged in public record but the context was kept private.
Now tell me who is a mouthpiece for the insurance industry?
PELOSI IS A DISGUSTING MANIACAL RAT.
There was an interesting PBS special about insurance companies that mentions politicians in the pockets of big insurance and it was also discussed on Charlie Rose when he spoke with a house member (democrat) about insurance reform.
Members from BOTH parties in almost equal numbers end up with executive/consultant positions with insurance and pharmaceutical companies after leaving office. These are million dollar jobs they are getting. Members from both parties are also getting millions of dollars in campaign donations along with stock tips (which are still legal), paid speaking engagements, etc. Has Pelosi returned any of her insurance company campaign donations???? No! Did she profit from inside information stock trades that should be illegal? Yes! Not that the republicans are any better.
The affordable care act was a huge pay off to insurance and the 80% must be spent on provision of healthcare is a joke. They can class a customer service rep in India who answers the phone as "providing" healthcare if that person mentions anything about staying healthy. Don't fall for the smoke and mirrors, both parties are made up of the rich and for the rich.
If you want to know about the Universe, ask stephen Hawking...If you want to know about Mouth Pieces, ask Nancy Pelosi...
But I do find it a little hypocritical, that the only Americans that aren't bent over the table by the ACA, is the Insurance Companies and Pharmaceutical Companies...Just sayin
Have always believed that employers have over exaggerated their total expenses toward healthcare when it came to contract time or in the case of non-unioned employees, when they asked for a raise, hence keeping from paying a living wage. Now that bargaining chip is gone. That is why employers are irritated. Next will be pensions, then what is left to deny a fair wage? The Republican party.
wje37fcsm .... (--sorry about the slobs thing - it's late and I couldn't think of a neutral term for the Romney, Koch brothers, GOP governor click that presently thinks the Mussolini fascist experiment should be retried--)
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?? Just remove the 'l' from slobs and you're spot on, mate.....
Elliot: since the meetings you claim were private, meaning you don't know what it was about, that is one hell of a leap of logic that you took in blaming mouthpieces. If you jumped into the air I think you would probably get stuck....
If anyone is interested, I do have a plan, I would appreciate any feed back...
The ACA is indicitive of GOP talking heads they talk allot but they never say anything. If you value your Country dont let the Republicans sell it out from under you
Who are the Democrats a mouthpiece for in terms of health care? The bill was written in secret and the American public was not informed who influenced its contents. What happened to full disclosure and open meetings?
Cockroaches hide when the lights are turned on.
Speaking of Mouths,and cockroaches, I'm glad to see the Radical Socialist Progressives finally thinking it's once again safe to crawl out of the shadows into the light,especially Princess Nancy and Her ilk,(everytime she opens Her mouth conservatives pick up more votes), first disrespecting a fallen American Hero, Brian Terry,and His family by walking out of a Congressional hearing without doing Their Jobs, (the actual reason the cowards did it was so they wouldn't have to put their names on the record in support of the criminals Holder and Obama , because they know what's going to happen when the Fast and furious wiretaps are finally released to the public),and then gloating because their lies about Obama care not being a tax,when in reality it is the largest tax increase ever inflicted on a people in the history of the world, giving them control of one sixth of the American economy and all that money, which I am sure they will be every bit as financially responsible with, as they were with the money We gave them for the Social Security Program,except this time it is for us and our families health care, but again not to worry, I am positive they will handle it with the same demonstrated efficiency with which they handled the post office, so put the Princess on T.V.,drag out Ol'" Clean Face",(the nick name given to him by his Mafia bosses as learned from FBI tapes), Harry Reid, of the war is lost fame, and let them keep talking,gloating , telling their lies, We need Them on the record, November is not that far away.
Americans are tired of the health care debate. Furthermore, Republicans calling this a tax, when it only will affect less than 1% of people (those that don't buy insurance), is a crock.
The ACA saves 240 billion over 10 years and costs 250 billion to repeal. In this era of deficits, how can Republicans possibly justify repeal.
Fix the current law if its broken.
Most republicans want "tort reform". Guess what, Texas tried it and it didn't lower health care costs, so that talking point is a miserable failure.
So who is going to be 'taxed' because of Obamacare?
The answer, according to Obama, is about 30 million people from the Middle Class who do not currently have health insurance but will be required to buy it now. It's not the 'poor' because they qualify for free Medicaid - at taxpayer expense. It's not the 'rich' because they already have insurance - so who's left? The Middle Class. Show me where I'm wrong - if you can.
Now consider the 'real life' issue. Obama says that these 30 million people will now be required to purchase health insurance, and they are typically those in the lower Middle Class income class that are struggling to make ends meet. If a family of 4 is struggling on an income of $30,000 per year (about $2,000 per month after payroll taxes) and must now spend $10,000 per year on medical insurance (estimated cost for a family of 4), where's it going to come from? They simply cannot afford it, so now they will have to go without insurance AND be fined (about $400 in the first year, and about $2,500 in the third year).
The ironic part is that the people who will be fined (taxed) will be the very same group that voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008 - I guess that's what some might call 'retribution'.
Once the Medicaid expansion rules forcing the States to re-write their Medicare eligibility rules was thrown out, this bill is dead; except for the over 12 new taxes imposed; and the re-writing of the medicare provisions to make it a maintenance not a cure for illness of the elderly;
this nation is in dire need of real health reform, not this Hodge-podge neutered bill; when this monster kicks in in 2014, if not repealed, there will be a out-cry like no one has ever seen; the elderly on Medicare under this bill have been thrown under the bus, and the middle class, has just seen a huge tax increase.
Eric-913730 "Americans are tired of the health care debate. Furthermore, Republicans calling this a tax, when it only will affect less than 1% of people (those that don't buy insurance), is a crock...The ACA saves 240 billion over 10 years"
Please tell me that you're not really that gullible.
First, Obama says that it will force about 30 million people (10% of Americans) without insurance to buy insurance - Not the rich (they have insurance) or poor (they get free Medicaid, courtesy of taxpayers) - that means the middle class will have to buy insurance or pay a fine.
Second - If ACA is supposed to 'save $240 billion over 10 years', why does the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office now say it will cost taxpayers $1.76 TRILLION over 10 years - where is that money going to come from? The link is below;
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/1175831
Here's the dirty little secret Pelosi and the rest of the hacks in Congress (republicans included) don't want to tell you. Those private insurance companies that all of you like to hate have been subsidizing medicare and medicaid for decades. Those two federal programs pay hospitals less, much less, than it actually costs to care for the "beneficiaries" of those programs. Hospitals make up for this loss by charging (and being paid) more than the cost of care by those mean, ugly, disgusting vile private insurers who exist only to rip off the little people. Medicare pays approximately 60% to 70% of the cost of care while those insurance companies pay between 120% and 130% of cost.
The federal government has long been under the delusion that if they simply pay less for care that somehow that equates to it costing less. No, it simply means that someone else pays for it.
Roy Wilson
To add to Your point Roy, This is a tax,which the Government can raise anytime it pleases, and when the estimated cost of this program explodes, which it will, (When has the projected cost of any Government program came in anywhere near what it was estimated to cost?),who will pay for the increased costs? Not to worry, Congress has the power to tax, and this, contrary to the liberal lies has now been shown to be nothing but a tax.
This is a simple discussion to me - Nancy Pelosi makes me want to vomit. And as an Independent voter, every time I see her it reminds of how she was one of the primary ramrods that forced this abomination "ObamaCare" down America's throat.
SHE and this thing called ObamaCare has reawakened me to the need for the Independent vote needs to go ANYWHERE but to Obama. Because someone needs bring some sanity to this subject before this "law" bankrupts middle-class America and this country.
This thing is a train-wreck coming and the biggest example in the history of America of PISS POOR LEADERSHIP and a broken Congress this country has EVER SEEN.
From California to the rest of the USA - we are so sorry....
'joemike404' has it spot on. I am an anesthesiologist and I can tell you that medicare reimburses us about 1/4 what a private insurance company pays and medicaid pays even less. The insurance companies agree to these higher rates understanding that the industry is not sustainable at the government reimbursed rates. Thus they are subsidizing Medicare and Medicaid. Very few anesthesiologists will remain in business if a single payer system that reimburses at the Medicaid/Medicare rates takes effect.
According to Ms Pelosi the ACA will improve health care, lower costs, and make health insurance more affordable "for everyone" yet most experts predict none of these claims will hold true.
Taxes will increase (capital gains, dividends, Medicare, etc) and yet we will continue to see annual insurance premium hikes as before.
to 'eric913730' you are very mistaken regarding tort reform. It is essential to controlling medical malpractice insurance rates and frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits, without which access to care will suffer greatly as doctors flee high risk areas and states.
sorry, in my post above I should have said MEDICAID, instead of Medicare for the expansion(put brain in gear before putting fingers on keyboard.)
How many average Americans have done as well as Romney has over the last two decades?
How many people reading here, make $50,000.00 a-day for the last two decades? For doing what? Shipping jobs overseas, firing people who eventually lost everything, homes, insurance, retirement...
President Obama is working for the people, Romney is working for big corporations and his rich buddies...
Single Payer would have been even better. Things where much more affordable before the insurance monopolies took control of everyone's pay check.
I just puked a little in my mouth after seeing that photo of Pelosi she is such a disgusting politician.
Please don't kid yourself Terry Obama is far from working for the people he is a liar as all politicians who are currently in office.
He promised the Health Care is not going to be a tax = Wrong the supreme court says it is 8(
He promised the not to punish the middle class and guess what he is..
The poor have no money the Rich do not give a @!$%# and middle is stuck with the @!$%# end of the stick.
Anyone who actually believes the lies coming out of her mouth are truly a few bricks shy of a load. The democrats are not for the 'little' people, they are for garnering votes via supposed freebies and the little guy is merely a rhetorical tool in their arsenal of getting re-elected. Pelosi has been in office for over 25 years now, think it is time she goes away and stays away. We cannot afford her stupidity.
This is the woman who stated that food stamps and unemployment benefits were good for the country, the rationale being that they helped 'stimulate' the economy. Sadly, some minions echoed her idiocy, not once thinking that huge numbers of people needing government assistance is a very bad thing and a sign that the economy is in bad shape. Her role in the creation of 'affordable healthcare' should be remembered, it is estimated that the cost of health insurance by 2016 will jump ten percent for a family of four making $30,000 per annum. Rather than paying hundreds, they will be paying thousands.
Wisdom from Pelosi: Kinda like listening to the Wicked Witch of the West... Has no clue about the ramifications of Obamacare, and doesn't seem to give a big rat's a$$ except to use the opportunity to play her ultra liberal version of politics.
It's time to dump this dumb witch along with her fellow communist, Obama.
Pelosi said on MTP this morning when asked about walking out on the vote for contempt on Holder that he had provided all the documantation requested. That is a lie, otherwise the POTUS wouldn't have had to invoke Executive Privelege to protect Holder from providing the requested communications. Specifically those communications within the Justice Department AFTER the operation was called off which probably would have shown that Holder was lying about his department's knowledge of F&F. There were several downright lies by Pelosi, but MTP didn't allow any rebuttals from the right. That's to keep good little minions like the Akita in the dark, and to put the blame squarely where it belongs - on those evil Koch Brothers! LOL.
Pelosi: "Let the people be in charge of how they receive coverage and health care. ..... And everybody will have lower rates, better quality care and better access."
More "words of wisdom" from Mrs. Peloski's "fantasy island". Yeah, Democrats...take those comments to your bank and save them. Just make sure you cite her comments when everything she said is a fabrication and will be just the opposite.
Wow, the Democrats really have good "spokes people" for their party: Bill Maher, Ed Schultz, Hilary Rosen, Chris Matthews, and the biggest one of all is Mrs. Peloski.
Sheesh, and just to think that she WAS #2 on replacing the President if something happened to him.
Line up all you koolaide drinkers, the botox brained c*nt from San Francisco has a new dose of mind numbing swill for you. After ingestion, you will be protected from actually seeing the truth abouth ObamaCare as it gets enacted. You won't care that your taxes skyrocket. You won't mind that your actual quality of care decreases. You won't even notice liberties being stolen from you. And all the while, you will drool like zombies and chant your Messiahs name.
If what Nancy Pelosi says it true, how do you explain the following article;
By PETER BAKER
updated 6/9/2012 12:57:57 AM ET2012-06-09T04:57:57
WASHINGTON — After weeks of talks, drug industry lobbyists were growing nervous. To cut a deal with the White House on overhauling health care, they needed to be sure that President Obama would stop a proposal intended to bring down medicine prices.
On June 3, 2009, one of the lobbyists e-mailed Nancy-Ann DeParle, the president’s health care adviser. Ms. DeParle reassured the lobbyist. Although Mr. Obama was overseas, she wrote, she and other top officials had “made decision, based on how constructive you guys have been, to oppose importation” on a different proposal.
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Google this article and decide for yourself, but I think the real truth is that "big" pharma has EVERYONE in their pocket!
Sorry, the information needed to google the above article is as follows;
Drug Industry Pushed Obama on Healthcare Overhaul E-mails Suggest
by Peter Baker, New York Times, 6/9/2012
Kenn, sorry, but it was the other way around first. Obama pushed the drug companies to cut prices two years consecutive by some $50 Billion. Then, what they did was pressure Obama for some breaks in the ACA. There Price breaks must have worked, because there is little damage done to them in the ACA. Check the timeline out, the emails came after the first meeting where Obama demanded monetary concessions.
Ms. Pelosi If Obamacare is so great for the nation and is such wonderful legislation then why are you and the rest of Congress not using this health care. And why are the unions exempt from this health care law. Tells me something is wrong with this.
Forty Percent of ObamaCare Exemptions Are Unions
January 28th 2011
Unions make up 40 percent of employees exempted from Obamacare
David Freddoso | The Examiner
Jan 27 2011
Yesterday, the Deparment of Health and Human Services announced it had granted more than 500 new waivers to Obamacares requirement that health plans have annual limits of no less than $750,000. This annual limit requirement climbs to $1.25 million next year and then to $2 million.
The reason these exemptions from the law are needed is that Obamacare forces all health insurance consumers to over-insure themselves and pay high premiums as a result. Without the waivers, many companies, non-profits and unions would simply drop their health plans. As of 2014, the waivers will no longer be available — at least, thats the way the law is written.
It is worth noting that there are 166 union benefits funds now exempted from this requirement, which account for about 40 percent of the exempted workers. This means that although there are only 14.6 million unionized employees in the United States, and 860,000 of them are already exempted from this provision of Obamacare
Mygirl1, Ido, richard,
All great posts! Thanks and keep up the fight to expose Pelosi, Reid and Obama as the true Elitist Socialists that they are.
It's laughable that the left is portraying Obamacare as a way to reduce healthcare costs when there is absolutely nothing in the plan that actually addresses or attempts to find ways to reduce costs. Their only goal is to shift money from private business (insurance companies, medical facilities and pharmaceutical companies) to the government and their few chosen, loyal cronies.
It appears that Obama and the left may be successful this fall in buying another election with the deceitful, misguided, socialist agenda brainwashing the uninformed lemming on the left. Of course, that is due to the failings of the mainstream Republican party.
The real issue will be, how will the public respond when Obama's Socialist dream drives this country into a depression. Will they still be blaming Bush?
Akita96th,
Then we should call Obama the lackey for green Corporations, right, as he has wasted almost $1 trillion dollars giving them bad loans, right.
As for being a salve; look around you don't have freedom anymore, unless you think freedom is to get in your car and go where ever you want to. For those of us that actually know what freedom is it is the Lib Dem that keeps taking these freedoms from us, not the Rep party as you claim?
I suppose you would like the government to take care of you from cradle to grave. Not me I want the freedoms back that where promised to me under the Constitution of the United States of America.
If Obama instead of trying to get votes by not securing our boarders, secured them that would be a start but just as My Girl said above
And that is exactly what the Dem do is promise you that you will no longer have to work and all these programs are set up for you. Well, I don’t know what kind of man can site by while his 6 kids are on welfare and do nothing, yes I do a Lib Dem man, but a man is supposed to provide for his family not let them depend on the system.
If people just opened their eye’s you would see that Obama is not a leader he picks and chooses which laws he will follow and in the next breath say that is not what he is doing. Case in point Obama is using the Federal government to raid marijuana clubs in all states where it is illegal under Federal law but is legal for medical use under state law. Know when Obama was running for president he said he would not do this and now he says we can’t pick and choose which laws we follow I must enforce all Federal law, really then enforce the laws on illegal emigrants as that too is a Federal law. There you have it he picks and chooses which laws he will and will not follow.
As for health care it has been ruled a tax and Obama said no new taxes for the middle class while he is in office, why this is not the first tax Obama has passed it will be the one that makes us pay a whole lot more of our checks to the government. Obama is a failure nothing he does comes out good for the USA and our Constitutional rights but he does not care his handler says he must do these thing for being elected. 57% of Americans didn't want this kind of health care passed as they knew what it would cost us.
Bill1488,
How many guys with 6 kids do you know that are sitting on their butts doing nothing? Voluntarily, that is?
Pelousy! That sight of that creature evokes a visceral dislike, unparalleled by all but the most vile people in history. AND she LIES to boot! The insurance companies came out like bandits thanks to Nasty Nancy & her democrat cohorts. KILL THE BILL! Ten year olds could have crafted a better bill than these clods did.
Also in the ACA corporations would be allowed to stop paying for health benefits to employees in turn they can pay an 8% tax of wages. This is well below the current or future cost of 25-30% of wages. They will not increase wages of the employees as compensation.
Organizations taking benefit of this 8% tax are medium to small businesses. Thus causing individuals to pay more out of their own pocket to have healthcare benefits.
@hardtostarboard, according to you "Ten year olds could have crafted a better bill than these colds did" If that is the case, then why didn't the Republicans or the Tea Partiers crafted a better bill? At certain age, you should grow beyond name calling and start focusing on the issues and try to come up with solution other than whinning.
@Bill1488, it is hard to stomach or read on when you can't even tell the truth in the your 1st sentence. "...Obama the lackey for green Corporations, right, as he has wasted almost $1 trillion dollars giving them bad loans,.." So who are the "green Corporations" that the current administration provided 1 trillion dollars of loans to? Is it that hard to tell the truth? Is it simply habit?
@Jeffersonwasright, Mygirl1, Ido, richard, you do know that the Obama's Healthcare Bill was based upon Mitt's healthcare program in MA and alternative to Hillary Clinton's healthcare proposal. Here is a clip of a 2011 Republican Primary Debate where the 2 Republicans talks about the where the initial individual mandate came from (obviously not from President Obama).
In addition, according to court documents (prior to Supreme Court) and briefing by the Heritage Foundation that "If citations to policy papers were subject to the same rules as legal citations, then the Heritage position quoted by the Department of Justice would have a red flag indicating it had been reversed. . . . Heritage has stopped supporting any insurance mandate." Which indicates that Heritage has at one time supproted INSURANCE MANDATE! Again data show that it started around 1988-1991... YES, it was developed specifically to oppose another Democratic President.
So we see another case of Republican think Tanks develope strategies to oppose Democratic Presidents and their Bill, instead of trying to improve the lives of us Americans... So what is up with that? And now taking both sides just to oppose President Obama... Keep it up drumming this Healthcare bill up and the Republicans will loose the Presidential nomination comes Nov. One sad bunch of loosers....
thturd
Here are the companies it is nice that you Dem Libs like to forget all the money Obama has flushed down the toilet but in the same breath will say that Bush was wrong for spending to much. You all need a dose of reality. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/green-scam-80-of-green-energy-loans-went-to-obama-donors-19-companies-went-bust-video/
Evergreen Solar
SpectraWatt
Solyndra (received $535 million)
Beacon Power (received $43 million)
AES’ subsidiary Eastern Energy
Nevada Geothermal (received $98.5 million)
SunPower (received $1.5 billion)
First Solar (received $1.46 billion)
Babcock & Brown (an Australian company which received $178 million)
Ener1 (subsidiary EnerDel received $118.5 million)
Amonix (received 5.9 million)
The National Renewable Energy Lab
Fisker Automotive
Abound Solar (received $400 million)
Chevy Volt (taxpayers basically own GM)
Solar Trust of America
A123 Systems (received $279 million)
Willard & Kelsey Solar Group (received $6 million)
Johnson Controls (received $299 million)
Schneider Electric (received $86 million)
Actually it is $3.16 trillion as of the last time I looked into it so thank you for having me get this information out there. As this is well above my last post that came in at $901 billion. What a huge difference. Libs want us to believe that this in different though he isn't giving them the money they are loans the government has given. That is funny because Obama's top contributors come from these companies, talk about paying them back for getting his dumb a88 elected it is criminal. Thanks for playing.
Zathrose, you're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor. Second suspension in a week.
Pelosi, meet ketal. It's black. Democrats are just as in bed with businesses as Republicans - just different ones (though in many cases businesses will give equal amounts to both parties to cover their bases). Democrats are just as power hungry and willing to throw this country under the bus for political gain as a Republican. Anyone who thinks one party is more honest and pure than the other is just an idiot. But we're all idiots for allowing these two terrible parties to stay in power and ruin this country. What we need is a new government structure to prevent the formation of parties in the first place. Ours is a few hundred years old and grossly out of date. Or maybe people really are too stupid to vote and we should institute IQ tests before allowing one to vote...
Amen! They don't go to Washington to do the peoples work - they go there to get rich.
If we had to take IQ test before voting then its looks as if
you would not be casting a vote.
Spot on. This is the truth and anyone who pretends different is part of the problem. People, you have created this mess! As the SCOTUS declared, we cannot be responsible for the people you elect.
This guy, kettle, k-e-t-t-l-e. And there is a difference between the parties. Can you name a single initiative where the Republican Party led to rectify an injustice, or provide some semblance of dignity to the poor? Civil rights? No. Social Security? No. Health care? No. Minimum wage? No. But give credit to Richard Nixon for Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), but how popular is that with the Republican Party?
I have many problems with the Democratic Party but I didn't see a Republican lifting their finger to make health insurance cheaper or more accessible for anyone. And I still haven't heard a Republican mention support for any portion of the health care bill. And last I checked, most Americans were largely for almost every individual portion of the bill; they just weren't for the bill in its entirety. Numbskulls.
Do you actually believe that the Civil Rights Legislation would have passed without Reublican Party in early sixties. No way and just a reminder the Jim Crow South was the Democratic Party. The real question and nobody asks how much more to have to give to get rid of the slavery guilt. Its time!
Too bad you have to go back 5 decades to find anything the Republican party ever did for anyone but themselves.
Now how about the 21st century. Anything there?
james you are right on and Reedeau, there are few political historians and even politicians that will not freely point out that over the past 100 years the 2 parties have basically switched places when it comes to many issues. I am a proud democrat but would have been a republican in Lincolns day(and soon after when the Jim Crow laws were put in place.
Actually Tom, The Founding Fathers - remember George Washington - said of political parties and political unions, "political parties only serve to divide what we fought, bled, and died for." He further stated "a representative government - of, by, and for the people, can not function in such a way when divisions amongst the representatives are impured by political motivations. Such motivations include those of serving one's own selfish interests, contradictory to the needs and desires of the governed".
Your retort, concerning the poster's IQ, truly shows the ignorance of Americans today. We can look at the divisions over the past 150 years and see the spiralling decline of our society. We are so apt to blame "party politics", blame Republicans, blame the Democrats for the ills of this country, when in fact we should be blaming OURSELVES for voting for these candidates. WE should be demanding transparent government, accountability, and the rules that apply to ALL of us unelected people, to APPLY and be even MORE STRINGENT on our representatives. Lucrative Business Deals, $10k a plate fundraisers for campaigns, lobbyists, special interests, ear marks, insider trading information that can be sold, are the common trait of a politician. Long gone are the days of honesty, integrity, and moral standing that should be what we want as a basic prerequisite of our representatives. A lack of IQ sir, is what is demonstrated every time you vote for a candidate based on the (D) or (R) next to their name. You can call yourself a mindless sheep who has indeed sold your soul to the party.
The causes for this are really simple. And it is unfortunate that this TRUTH in the matter will sting. But we are all TOO DAMNED LAZY, too self consumed, too wrapped up in our own dramas, to educate ourselves about the person we are electing to represent us. Instead we rely on ads, we rely on spin doctors, press releases, NONE OF WHICH provide us an unbiased source of information we need to make the SMART (there is that IQ word again) decision. IF a candidate won't take 10 mins out of his day to take your personal phone call or at least make an HONEST effort to contact you, THAT SHOULD SPEAK VOLUMES. Your single vote is meaningless in todays political environment when so many others have been bought and paid for by a candidate's loyalty to some Union's, Corporation's, or Special Interests' cause. The American Voter, sadly is a relic of the past, and today the Representative in Congress is nothing more than a business investment by who ever spends the most cash to BUY that asset...
You know how they put companies names around the inside walls of baseball stadiums and hockey rinks? They should do that with Congress and the Senate.
And make them wear their sponsors names on their jackets like race car drivers.
RealChris
Perhaps you don't pay attention, and that's your problem. Not to worry! If it wasn't for the Republicans, gay marriage would not have passed in NY. I'll reserve my opinions on that. However, it just goes to show that you are DEAD WRONG!
About anything in particular? Or just not agreeing with your unknown opinion.
RealChris
Perhaps you should be the advertising person for the corporations. Unless you haven't bought anything at all, don't eat, don't drive a car, or even have a roof over your head, YOU helped make them rich. Maybe they should give out the newest iPhone, computer, car, and everything else for free?? Same basic principle!
The point is, that you act like Republicans haven't done anything for "civil rights". The deciding votes on gay marriage here in NY were Republican. Ironically, the most outspoken critic of the passage, was Sen. Ruben Diaz, a Democrat from the city. He had no problem blasting the Assembly on that one.
Hey! You found one thing in one city! Good for you! Now look for a needle in a haystack. I bet you can find it.
And, obviously, you're not happy with the one thing they did. Who could have expected that.
13BVET,
I'm going to take the side TheRealChris is on. He's right on the mark.
Right on the mark about what?
Zoom! Zoom! Passed you in both lanes!
Did I specify which side I was on in that issue? No. You don't impress me much. I've dealt with far worse.
Grow the f### up, will you? What is this zoom, zoom sh!t?
Temper, temper.
To Will #2.8.........great post, and very true!
the civil rights act
filibustered by democrats and almost blocked by racist power hungry democrats.
Chris
Rest assured, you are not playing with some punk kid here. I've dealt with more death than you can imagine.
On another note, who is supposedly the health insurers mouthpiece? Note in the link I'm going to provide, how Blue Cross/Blue Shield wanted stricter mandates, and how Obama during his campaign said he was against mandates.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/63107-blue-cross-trade-group-blasts-reform-legislation
Please people, go back and reread #2.8 by Will the Watcher - It's the first post here that makes any sense whatsoever. And he's 100% correct.
Talk to your friends and you can tell immediately what TV News they watch or Radio station they listen too. It's no longer network 'news' its' political commentary. And voters follow it hook, line, and sinker! The ignorance of the average voter is sad and the main reason this country is falling apart because it no longer has representation of the people. Think about all the congressman who signed a pledge to a Washington lobbyist which doesn't even have a date on it. In other words, regardless of the situation this country finds itself, these congressman have pledged to one man how they will vote. And we think we have representative in Congress? Better, think again.
I wont vote for anyone who wont sign Grover Norquist's PLEDGE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THEY WONT RAISE OUR TAXES ANYMORE.
reedeau, yes it was called the Democratic Party but as time passed the ideology of the 2 parties evolved. The Republican party became, among other selfish things, more llike communism, more like dictators, more like slave owners, more capitalistic than need be, more practicing of the evil ideology among civilizations while placing their hand over their heart and the other on a bible, and the other in your pocket. The Democratic party of today has evolved to more of a counter to evil. Remember that Satan was kin to God and Republicans have done more advertising to become God like to sucker the good people to champion their ways. That's why I respect those religious institutions that stick to the saving of souls instead of spouting politics.
Elliot: that's because you're a moron - taxes are lower than they've been in the last two decades and that means a lot less money for the gov to run things - Norquist is a flunkie and so are his followers. If I were a betting sailor, I'd wager the first thing that repubs will have to do if Mitt wins is raise taxes (quietly of course) just like Reagan did.
Will the Watcher: as an Independent I agree with much of what you say. But what kind of objective group could possibly be put together to effect the ends of which you speak? Washington is awash in lobbyists, kickbacks and outright pay-offs: who can implement what you suggest? Do you have someplace in mind to begin such a venture? If so, lay it out.... I would hear it.
Wow! You must not live in New York, then. Our taxes are horrible. By the way, I noticed in your other post, that you referred to someone as "mate"? Cripes, I don't know of anyone that uses that term in the U.S. Just what state do you live in where they call other people "mate"????
Roberts has illuminated a fact that heretofore has remained in the shallow recesses of public debate. He, and the 5-4 affirmation of Obamacare issued by the Supreme Court has acknowledged that there is no limit to the power of the Federal Government to tax us and therefore control our lives When the government can penalize us for not conforming to its edicts (buying health insurance) by TAXING us it is clear that we are completely vulnerable to the desires of the politicians we elect. Politicians that include those with the ability to mask their agendas and convince the vulnerable and naive that they will provide for them, define their oppressors and promise to punish them. History is replete with examples - Lenin, Hitler and now Obama. Roberts subtly, brilliantly forced the government to acknowledge that what Obama insisted on numerous occasions was not a tax could only be constitutional if is in fact a tax. The transcripts show that governments lawyer acknowledged that both the President as well as its liberal congressional authors, in discreet circumstances; labeled it a tax. So now we know that politicians like our current president as well as his liberal congressional colleagues will LIE to us in order to achieve their agendas.
Thursdays Supreme Court decision will be remembered as truly historic. Historic in the sense that it was the day America was forced to decide its future. Justice Roberts in his written decision made it clear that the court he presides over will not save us from ourselves. Will we cede our freedom to politicians bent on subjugating us to their will through taxation and regulation? When Obama empowers an agency (EPA) to define a gas (CO2) we exhale as living creatures a pollutant, one must ask what he truly thinks of us. When Obama and his liberal colleagues threaten to tax (Cap & Trade) the very energy source (fossil fuels) this country relies on power its industries and heat its homes in order us force us to use the source (solar) he and his cronies (Solyndra) demand it is time to ask ourselves if we can trust them with so much power. Can we trust an alliance that has expanded government to unmanageable size with agencies run by bureaucrats more interested in throwing “over the top” (GSA) parties than fulfilling their mandated responsibilities. Despite their promise to extract us from the ditch they inherited they have done nothing more than spin the tires until now we are not only stuck but perilously close to being out of gas. One may choose to ignore their motives but the results of their policies are inescapable. Justice Roberts has reminded all of us that if we don’t like the laws forced upon us then we must fire the politicians that write them. Justice Roberts has done his part. Now we must do ours this November and every election cycle thereafter.
thisguy,
It is not so much the parties as it is the politicians themselves. The framers of the constitution had in mind that our legislators be purely part time. They were to serve and then return to their lives. Service was to be the reward, not monetary gain, not power, or notoriety! Once we let politicians become career politicians, that know no other way of life, or have ever been productive in any other walk of life, we gave up our country. Originally, the vice president was the loser in a presidential election and was expected to set aside political differences in order to answer the call of service to the people. A bit idealistic I'll admit, but a noble thought that could hold those in office to the highest standards. They made it up to the people to hold politicians to the level of behavior they were comfortable with by establishing periodic elections, which I personally believe is the greatest difference between our government and any other in the world. It gave us the ability to settle all but our most divisive differences in a peaceful forum. In order for us to return to the intent that first empowered our nation, we must impose stricter term limits and greater restrictions on political office.
We must hold our leaders to the highest standards, and refuse to allow the sweeping of questionable behavior under the carpet. The tools for this were already provided to us, unfortunately we've forgotten their true purpose and let our own ideologies get in the way of justice.
timothy k
Though I did not agree with the Supreme Court decision, I do applaud the reasoning behind it. The supreme court is mandated to interpret the law, not legislate from the bench. In the decision we see just that. It makes clear the limitations of governmental power over the people and points out a flaw in our system that does need to be addressed. Addressed I say because there is a limit stated to the imposition of taxation by congress which I believe this instance exceeds.
If we could somehow get lawmakers to pay attention to the issues we are all experiencing, and the overall climate of fear we have endured for years.
Solution: An additional Altruist Branch of government that is comprised of randomly selected weekly volunteer citizens, this branch of one week volunteers are to assist their local Senators and Congressmen as a team. (cost=zero)
Reporting directly to the same office and weighing yay/nay on issues, because there really is no check and balance unless there is a low, mid, & upper classed civilian to represent an average Jane/Joe.
Greed. To curb corporate influence, install an Altruist into the equation, let average Jane/Joe reason whether specific corporations are worthy. Every day issues like banking that are unnecessarily complex, could be an every day earful for lawmakers. I would rather lawmakers complain: "We tried to outsource their jobs, take their homes, leave them to die, etc... they just wouldn't let us!".
Volunteers step up because they are able. The elderly, the retired, the activists, the young, the stay at home moms, the active duty military, every one who can find the time to volunteer, every one who has something to say and would like to work towards a better future would step up.
Soon enough the best and brightest would present themselves and get the attention they deserve to run for their mayoral and council positions, to land paying jobs in civil service and rise to become Senators and Congressmen themselves. Once the cycle begins our lawmakers will infact be worthy of the title.
We need a way to keep up the momentum and never stall an entire presidency with needless counterproductive banter. Lawmakers don't want to do their jobs, they will find themselves unemployed and back in line hoping their number comes up for Altruism.
Signed,
Deaf ears
Timothy - Nice rant.
Just one thing that struck me - your complaint at regarding CO2 as a pollutant. You know what happens if you get stuck in a submarine under water with no air circulation? You can die of, get this - CO2 poisoning!
CO2 is a poison. As it contaminates the air, it is a pollutant.
Actually Alex there are a number of places we can start. But before I get into that, let me make another point here for people to ponder. Did you know, or even care, that congress legislates their own pay and pay raises, benefits, and the like? Imagine that, the "employee" sets their own pay and benefits package based on their whims, without regard to their performance, and without the approval or in MOST CASES without the knowledge of thier employer (that would be US.) Were you also aware that these "super committees" are basically handpicked, not based on performance, knowledge, or expertise, but rather as strategic political games, based on party loyalty, favors, and what essentially boils down to, "the good ole boy" club. Additionally, were many of you aware that the American Voter DOES NOT elect the president. That election comes from the electoral college, and they are FREE to swing thier vote regardless of how thier constituency declares. So states like Montana for instance, having fewer population are basically relegated to 2nd or 3rd class citizens. States, called the "battle ground states" are wooed for their electoral college delegate votes, while other states "considered in the bag", are often taken for granted. It belittles EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US that is able to vote. So, to answer your question Alex, I would start with -
Dissolution of the Electoral College - put the power of the vote back into the hands of the governed. It will force candidates for high office to spend the time with their constituents. It will force the candidates to make the effort to visit each state, to HEAR the voice of the people in that state, and to realize that NONE of us are "in the bag." I personally believe every man or woman who is legally eligible to vote should have that "power of their voice being heard" resting solely in THEIR hands.
I would abolish all legislation that permits congress to set their own pay and benefits. If the representative of their state is doing a good job, then the voters of that state should, could, and would have the "power" to reward or otherwise hold accountable those representatives of their states. As it is now, congress can enact pay raises for themselves, and have the tax payers (that's us sheep who have little to no say) pay for it. I would likewise set term limits on ALL elected positions, to rid the system of the power brokering, the "career" politicians, and the "bought and paid for" asset that represents special interests. Set a 2 term limit and clause it to keep House of Reps doing 2 terms in the House and seeking to do 2 terms in the senate, and likewise. Remove that "cushy" I am a household name garbage and make those representatives work for thier constituency. It would also limit the amount of influence special interests have over our elected officials.
I would dissolve political parties - and thereby do away with primary elections. It saves money, saves hassles, and puts on notice ALL CANDIDATES to be on top of thier game at all times. There would be little room for infighting or choosing who would best be suited to serve a political party. It would however focus the candidate on the needs, wants, and desires of their home constituencies.
And as a final 1st step, I would outlaw corporate campaign financing. I would do away with the my money is better than your lack of money game we see today. The more power the American Voter has to hold their elected officials accountable, the better off we would be. It would force our elected officials to act in a manner that is more prudent, more transparent, and more honorably than what we have now.
The party politics game and the blame game of Democrats and Republicans, as to who is at fault for things NOT getting done, for trampling the common citizen, needs to end. Accountability and Responsibility is the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE the voter needs to place on their elected officials. In the beginning of our country it was this way. WE WERE GREAT then. We can be just as Great now...
thisguy-3398482 -- Anyone who parrots GOPee Wee Herman "I know you are, but what am I?" false equivalencies is an idiot.
The Democrats belief that health care is a right not a privilege, their longtime efforts for universal healthcare (if not single-payer than a public option), and well-known progressive platform for the middle class and working poor is NOT fake actions to get campaign contributions from who, poor people?
There's a reason that Wall Street and other Big Business (oil, insurance/pharmaceutical, etc.) donate 5 to 1 to Republicans, and now post-Citizen's United, Romney's campaign is funded by a handful of gazillionaires. What does this say about Romney, that he can't raise money from the grassroots? It says he has not passed the vetting test of majority support, but rather he is simply bought and paid for.
In any event, stop with the lack of logic, and bring back Rule of Reason!
Fooz- Learn some biology. Plants require CO2 to produce the food that sustains all living creatures, including the buffoons, like you; calling it a pollutant. It has been around since the birth of this planet in one form or another. Its called the carbon cycle. Not a very good deflection fron the substance of my post. Apparently you are one of those unfortunate naive and vulnerable souls susceptible to politicians like Obama. Have you been spending a lot of time on submarines with no air circulation? I recommend you get outside and try some gardening.
Pelosi mouthpiece = XXXL
The Pelosi helped pass a healthcare bill which provides the heath insurance companies more customers through mandated purchases /tax penalties. I am not sure if I buy the other guy is the mouthpiece argument here.
We don't need to try to find other parties in our politics.We just have to know the voting records of each politician. Also a record of their attendance in congress. I personally decide on the party in which I vote for the bills they introduce and how many vote against them.
Pelosi intelligently articulates positions on issues, and that is why the ignorant Haters dislike her.
Of the two Parties, the GOP is owned by the health insurance industry the most. That is what is meant by "mouthpiece." FOX Noise and Hate Radio are the mouthpiece of the GOP, who are the mouthpiece of Big Business and the 1%.
Taxation without representation means the Supreme Court does not dictate taxation, rather Congress does because they are elected officials. And
What folks also are neglecting to note is that the only way people can have faith in the SCOTUS is when there isn't always a 5-4 ruling, and if there is a 5-4 ruling that it isn't always down "Party lines' so to speak. In both rulings last week on Arizona's immigration law and ACA, it was not "partisan" -- And not just in regard to Roberts, but Sotomayor on Arizona's immigration law and Kagan on Medicaid expansion (though this will also help Vermont proceed with single-payer as much as Red states can opt out).
To the rightwingers who want to b!tch about the ACA ruling, it is no more a disappointment for you, and even less since you are ignorant of the long-term effect compared to Bush v Gore. We KNOW the long-term effect of Bush v Gore, which has been a Lost Decade economically.
look the republicans have not done one dam thing to help the average joe in this country for the last 30 some odd yrs. everything has been aimed at helping the rich get richer billion dollar corporations take their jobs overseas to aviod taxes then we elect people that let them bring it back at a 5% tax rate. then they bring it back and cut jobs and they are trying to do it again don`t let them. since Obama took office the teapubs have done nothing but try to supress the vote, ban abortion, bust unions, give away state couffers to the rich, ban contraception, repeal Obamacare, won`t pass a jobs bill without taking it from the poor, don`t want to pay for desasters unless we take it from the poor and the elderly, won`t raise taxes on the so called job creaters but will raise them on the poor and the elderly, taking over small towns and their elected, has done everything they can to make Obama a one term president, made this country lose our AAA credit so now we pay more intrest on our loans, hasn`t created one job, made the federal goverment and republican held states goverments layoff teachers fire fighters cops and muni employees to make unemployment higher to make the president look bad, theres been 178 abortion bills intraduced in the house and republican led states and not one jobs bill unless you count the the one the poor and the elderly would pay for, and the sad part is every recession we have had under a republican president has spent more money and created more goverment jobs and thats how we got thru every recession and got back on our feet. but this time the republicans don`t want us to recover while Obama is in office because they want control of everything so they can go back and do the same thing as before with no regulations on anything and the rich and the corporations make all the rules. so if thats what you want then please do the rest of us a faver and don`t vote and move to another country cus you are un american and shouldn`t have a right to vote anyway.
alboyano
Looks like you have been sleeping for 30 years, or you have been reading some pretty onesided opinions you accept as the whole truth.
TruePatriot
The democrats argued the penalty two ways during arguments. They argued it to be a tax on one hand, and argued it was regulating commerce on the other hand. In effect Roberts then became a legislator by declaring to be one or the other.
BTW: According to Phd's on law, the Tax argument was the weakest argument, and also as applied in the legislation actually unconstitutional as a tax.
So, what we really have is a penalty not written as a tax, then called a tax even though as it was written would be illegal to be called a tax. Impressive!
I have a plan, and I am hoping for feed back, from anyone actually interested...
http://mrpheaniques.newsvine.com/_news/2012/06/25/12389484-replacement-national-health-care-plan?threadId=3450156&commentId=67600973
The republican party is the mouth piece of greed ,profit and buying of elections at any price.
TruePartiot
Sorry, I just don't see the logic. Both parties are funded by donations. Both parties received donations from the health care industry. According to CNN FAQ check the Democrats received slightly more from the health care industry than the Republicans.
I have nothing against Nancy Pelosi, but in this case I do not see her argument.
How is forcing businesses and individuals to purchase a product punishing the producers of the product?
Thisguy wrote; "What we need is a new government structure to prevent the formation of parties in the first place. Ours is a few hundred years old and grossly out of date."
The only thing this government needs is to actually follow the blueprint laid down in the Constitution. There's nothing inherently wrong with the Constitution, and outlawing parties would violate the Constitution's "freedom of association" clause; some fine tuning might well be in order
What's needed is for We the People to stand up, in arms if necessary, and force our elected officials to FOLLOW the Constitution, not reinterpret it to allow for every new whim and wrinkle of social thought.
No less an authority than Thomas Jefferson said in a letter to William Stephens Smith in 1787: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure."
There's nothing wrong with our basic system of governance that a little refreshing can't fix.
I think she still hasn't read the bill. This bill forces everyone to send a monthly check to the health insurance industry. I can't wait to see the multi-million dollar bonus checks in the insurance industry and how the left is going to blame Bush for it. The people ARE trying to be in charge of how they receive coverage and health care. I say put HER and everyone in her family under this bill with no other options other than paying a fine and see how empowered she feels.
I think she still hasn't read the bill. This bill forces everyone to send a monthly check to the health insurance industry. I can't wait to see the multi-million dollar bonus checks in the insurance industry and how the left is going to blame Bush for it. The people ARE trying to be in charge of how they receive coverage and health care. I say put HER and everyone in her family under this bill with no other options other than paying a fine and see how empowered she feels.
I think she still hasn't read the bill. This bill forces everyone to send a monthly check to the health insurance industry. I can't wait to see the multi-million dollar bonus checks in the insurance industry and how the left is going to blame Bush for it. The people ARE trying to be in charge of how they receive coverage and health care. I say put HER and everyone in her family under this bill with no other options other than paying a fine and see how empowered she feels.
Anyone who's been awake for the last decade knows whats been happening to healthcare in this country. Companies have been divesting themselves of employee plans for years, reducing benefits and shifting costs to employees. Meanwhile, the ranks of the uninsured have swelled. Now everyone who has been fortunate enough to have insurance has been paying for those who don't, most estimate $1400/yr. Add in insurance company shenaneghians and people who had the misfortune of being ill and you have had annual double digit increases for years.
Now, the American people, as they have done in the past asked the political parties for a hand with an intractable problem. As usual only one party cares, you know who you are.
The Civil Rights legislation in the 1960's passed because LBJ used information gathered by J Edgar Hoover to gently 'lean' on a number of members of Congress to ensure that they voted the 'right' way. So the USA got Civil Rights legislation passed only because scores of Congressmen in both Houses had 'nasty' stuff that they didn't want made public. An quite frankly Obama should be just as ruthless - if these members chose to bury their ethics in sleaze they can hardly expect Obama not to play dirty pool.
ORB
I believe you. In the sixties there were so many in both parties who were racists I think they would had to have been blackmailed to get them to go along with Civil Rights. That may be what we will have to do to get decent affordable health care now. Feal tactics.
Pelosi is such an idiot that she would have used her money (not unusual in D.C.) to buy her position.
Ms. Pelosi is a "mouthpiece" for stupidity.
Politics today have become almost cult-like. Two contrasting groups with polar opposite viewpoints bent on defeating the other. US vs. THEM. In the middle of this madness lie the moderate voters. Looking on in disbelief at a generation of Americans so brainwashed by their own political ideology that they are unwilling to even entertain the notion that any other approach in addressing issues cannot be better than theirs. At the top of the political food chain lie our President and Sr. DEM and REP Congressional leaders who are calling all the shots. Their views are gospel and need to be spread by their contingent so they can ultimately reap the benefit of re-election.
ct...
Like having Dame Pelosi tell us that the Republican Party is a "mouthpiece for the insurance companies" while her party pushed thru and signed a law forcing every American to purchase health insurance from those very same insurance companies ???
I'd put my money on insurance companies over feckless politicians, any day of the week. We taxpayers will end up getting drilled by ACA because the costs estimated by those who wrote the bill will...once again...way off the mark. The insurance companies will however, profit big time, when all is said and done.
The majority of Americans don't want Obamacare. Democrats are not helping themselves when they force it down our throats and then force us to pay for it. We reject the concept that our politicians become an elite ruling class when we only elect them to represent us.
Kannin,
The majority of Americans wanted a public option
The majority of Americans wanted healthcare reform
What do you propose??
The majority of Americans when asked pointedly if they favor specific provisions in Obamacare they say it is a good idea. Guaranteed there are already millions of yahoos benefiting from its provisions who have been convinced it's a bad thing just because someone called Obama a Kenyan Socialist.
\
My problem with obummercare is its a TAX. Money that will just go to the general fund. It doesnt help increase the number of Dr's or Nurses. Doesnt make drugs more affordable. It just will give more people a Plastic Card to say they have insurance. And that wont help you when you have Cancer or are Bleeding.
What we need is Health Care Reform that makes it easier for Americans to become Dr's & Nurses. Make Drugs more affordable. Increase the number of Hospital beds and care facilities. Otherwards Actual things that will treat people and not just give them a plastic card to say you are insured.
You haven't seen the latest polls.
Rob - Not sure if the majority of Americans still want a public option. Do you have a current source of polling data?
Healthcare reform is desperately needed, but we have to be sure that the cure is better than the disease. Obamacare is, unfortunately, worse. The root of the problem (in my opinion) is the ability of insurance companies to deny payment on the flimsiest of excuses; relying on the fact that a sick person has neither the energy nor resources to fight back.
I would propose, first, increased competition by allowing companies to operate across state lines. Second, fraudulent denials, if shown to be in error, should have severe penalties to the insurance company that would be paid to the policy holder. For example, the most common excuse that the companies use to deny payment is that a charge is not "reasonable and customary." If the policy holder can show that the charge falls between the upper and lower charges in his/her city, the the insurance company should reimburse three times the denied amount.
Latest Polls:
Monday, June 25, 2012: The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 54% of Likely U.S. Voters at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care bill, while 39% are at least somewhat opposed. This includes 43% who Strongly Favor repeal and 28% who are Strongly Opposed to it.
No recent polling data on the public option becuase it was taken off the table in 2009-10. However, the range of support was 52-80% back then.
I'm going to conduct my own poll here. Please look below.
I want health care reform. And, if I had my way, I'd shove single payer down all Americans throats - and they'd probably like it!!! My friends in other countries feel sorry for us poor Americans and our over priced shoddy medical system.
In that case, you should support ObamaCares, because it takes away the excuses that they use.
This sounds nice on paper, but what this basically means is that they are going to all move to some small state,
bribelobby the legislature and get laws passed that allow them do whatever they want, without any oversight - including denying whatever they feel like. Selling insurance over state lines is no solution.Oversight and better laws is the solution, i.e. ObamaCares.
The actual name of the act is the Affordable Care Tax. If you wish to use the slang term, it's ObamaCare.
However, if "it is a tax" is your only problem with it, then that's great; you should really support it, because the whole point of having that Plastic Card that says they have insurance means that they can go in to a doctor and get the issue taken care of before it needs to get to the emergency room.
This saves the taxpayer money, because it allows illnesses to be treated before they become serious.
In addition, if they can get it taken care of early, they don't live in pain, which means that they are more productive members of society - and guess what - people who are working earn wages, and people who are earning wages pay taxes on those wages. Everyone benefits. Employees, employers, taxpayers in general.
To Kannin - yes, we need healthcare reform. The Republicans certainly are not pursuing this important need for Americans - They are currently trying to stop it!
Smlfry2 - Don't know where you are getting your info
The Republican Alternative
Republicans in the House of Representatives unveiled a 3-and-a-half page summary of their own health plan, without details or an estimate of costs, but emphasized that their plan would cost less than the Democratic plan.
Key Provisions of the House GOP Plan
Ideas in the House GOP Plan that Are Supported by Both Parties
Kannin you are correct. Where does Pelosi get her information? If the majority of Americans want Obamacare repealed it should happen. Why are democrats forcing it down our throats or rather up our a#@? Pelosi is just the mouthpiece attempting to divert attention away from Obama and his flop as president.
Smlfry what makes you think Obamacare is health reform? Reform would be to change medical cost to something reasonable not continual increases without justification. Doctors and hospitals will rake in a fortune subsidized by taxpayers dollars and premiums.
Does everyone here who say Republicans are for big business thing doctors, hospitals, and health insurance companies are not big business? If so you need to have a reality check. There is not another single business field that produces that much income. Prove me wrong if you can.
Supreme court was correct "it is not their job to protect us from the politicians we elect". Listen to the democrats and continue to get the shaft. I am a democrat and have watched their actions and heard all their BS for 40 years about being for the poor.
People start business to make money. If there is not a return on investment why should anyone want a business? It should not take a rocket scientist to figure if there is no business there are no jobs. Republicans may support business but democrats support the unions who drive up cost coupled with all the workplace regulations make it lucrative for companies to move production overseas. General Motors is a fine example of the unions and democrats effect on business.
My opinion is middle class America consists of state and federal employees, police, firemen, and teachers. Good income. free health care, no social security payments, secure jobs (takes act of God to fire one), lax workplaces, and crazy pensions.
Nancy Pelosi has been Obama's nasty bitch attack dog since before he was elected. She has consistently painted him as the messiah and has trotted right along behind him, wagging her tail, panting, and waiting for the occasional treat he deigns to throw her. Her bark only presages her bite, which is incredibly bad and invariably costs this country hundeds of billions of dollars (check her voting record and her sponsored legislation record).
If you people want to seriously see our country go down the tube, reelect Obama, change control of the House to Pelosi, and keep that idiot Reid in the Senate. Between the three of them, they should be able to double the national debt in four years.
I have a plan, It would reduce Federal Healthcare Costs by 90%, over all healthcare cost by 60%, it would cover all Americans, it would cover pre existing conditions, it would not limit anyones health-care choices, you would not be paying for mine and I would not be paying for yours, but it would cover anyone you wanted it to (26 -60 year old son, sister-inlaw, you name it)...it would eliminate being Job Locked Healthcare...and noone would be "Required to participate"...It would save Medicare and Medicaid, and get politicians and political appointees out of the health care business...and it might even make a profit for itself
I have a plan to reduce the price of gasoline by 95%. I have created a synthetic fuel that all vehicles will be able to use. It does not burn like the gasoline we have now so it will not emit any pollution into the atmosphere. It will be available to you anywhere you park your car and will refill automatically. And best of all, the product itself is free. That's right, its free.
With Mr.PheaNiques' health care plan and my gasoline plan we will all have loads of cash to enjoy life.
Any plan, for anything, by anyone except a Politician, will make everyones life better...@ Quahaug, im intersted, where can I find your plan, mine is in my article section
Nice words Kannin, but words without substance unless you list your sources. Don't give me, "Everybody knows it's true," or "Look it up for your self." Everything you listed in the in the GOP plan is in Obamacare. The GOP got everything it wanted in Obamacare, except the passage of the bill.
Guess what, the majority of Americans don't want it repealed. Look at the recent polls.
Your facts are wrong. And, if you poll individual issues, its actually very popular.
Rob 99
I'm familar with that polling. First of all the far majority of people liked their insurance plan. What the favor for the public options was for those who did not have insurance. I.e. They didn't want the public option for themselves. Big difference there.
Question for you. According to various sources 56 - 75% of employers will drop the employer plans. What do you think the reaction of these people will be when they go to the exchanges and have to pay full price for their health insurance for he first time?
Mr. Pheaniques
90% is unreasonable, but we could get things cheaper by eliminating insurance in the health industry altogether.
The reason doctors get sued so much. Lawyers love the opportuinity to get a guarrenteed settlement for any possible malpractice cases. Big Insurance, bring even bigger money than before.
Medicaid insurance pays about 33% less than the actual costs for services. This loss get's rolled into the fees for people with other insurance or no insurance.
You want 30% less, Pay cash. Yup, if you offer to pay cash, you can get a nifty discount.
The reasons hospitals can charge so much is because health insurance will pay for it. Well they used to until the costs to the insurer was causing the insurer to lose money, so the insurers started making deals with doctors to pay less for services. Doctors and hospitals then rolled the missing fees back into the new charges for services. That is why a $30,000 hospital bill my only fetch $10,000 from the Health insurer.
Eliminate Health insurance provided medical facilites reprice back to the actual cost plus a reasonable profit.
Since wiping out health insurance is not feasible, then ratchet back to a HSA with a Catastrophic health care plan. In the past, Catastrophic health insurance was the rule of the day. One of the big reasons for the rise today is that instead of using the insurance only for emergencies, using insurance was expanded to every visit for every possible ache or pain.
HSA/Catastrophic plans eliminate this.
Actually 90% is the reduction in Federal Spending, and I actually think it might be modest, but it would take ~15 maybe 20 years to attain the full 90%...If medicare and medicaid were not the first levels of the "Hierarchy" it could happen much quicker than that
actually my plan would do much of what you suggest, while also providing choice to consumers who wish and can afford a "Cadillac Plan"
My plan is based on Individual and Group Health Savings Accounts, but also add reduction of Admin costs and delays and many other things
and section 4
would take most malpractice suits out of the "civilian courts", and move them to courts within the health-care system, which I believe would result in fair "awards" while also providing possible "punitive" action when appropriate, IE...intentional negligence as opposed to simple human error...I think it would greatly reduce, ambulance chasing...while also insure both side of the lawsuits are heard by a jury with an understanding of realities...and accounts maintained for providers could function as "malpractise insurance' after deposits reach a reasonable level for the providers customer base, no more "insurance payments" because that money would remain there, as that providers money, and available at a point when that provider quits practising medicine "retirement nestegg"
Have you seen the latest poll? the majority of Americans do want Obamacare now that it has been explained to them without the help of the Murdock rags!
Who told you this? Pelosi? You obviously only read liberal media. Do you even know what the Republican alternative plans are? They've been available to you on the web and on the news since 2009. Why are you so happy about this bill leaving out 10 million Americans? Are you assuming they're all Republicans or something?
Putting aside that you resort to name calling and no external links to back up your claims, you should actually read the question that was asked in the poll. You should also read the "explanation" by the justices saying that this has been a tax all along. That's something you didn't read on MSNBC up until the ruling....and now they're backpedaling again.
Kanin & Rob...
The "majority" of Americans that you speak of...barely pay attention anymore. That's why our politicians screw things up as badly as they often do and get away with it more often than they should.
Corporations have no morals or ethics. Their primary motive is profit. That is how they work and that is their nature. It is up to governments and citizens to regulate the corporations' activities so that they are not allowed to unbalance the economics of our nation or the world. If we elect the corporate lakeys (Romney and most of the GOP) then we lose that balance and the populace becomes at risk to lose their collective wealth. The GOP will redistribute the wealth of the nation to the rich corporations.
Save America, vote Obama/Biden 2012.
I agree with you that redistribution of wealth is inherently evil. The government has no business taking money away from one group and giving it to another.
Kannin, evil is geonocide, killing children, beating up old ladies, stealing from poor people. You may not like redistibution of wealth but it does not fall into the category of evil. I believe that the roads that are built for commerce, the web which was built with taxpayer dollars, and our infrastructure, are public assets that benefit the rich far more than anyone else. Amazon isn't much of a business without the web, is it now? Nor is Google. So you don't think Jeff Bezos shouldn't be paying a bunch more in taxes. He has nothing if not for PUBLIC INVESTMENT. So how is this redistribution of wealth? In fact, its profit sharing. Why are we paying tax dollars so some guys like Jeff Bezos or Sergey Brin can accumulate wealth at our expense?
"Reagan" (the republican GOD) and most GOPer believe in redistributing wealth to them from the pockets of the poor.
Kannin- the redistribution has already occurred. Wake up and smell the coffee. What do you think "trickle down" economics was all about? Good grief,man. Look around you.
What tax dollars are being paid to Jeff Bezos?
James, you can't just arbitrarily define English words the way you want:
Description of evil - American Heritage® Dictionary - ADJECTIVE:
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
I think redistribution of wealth is much worse than a poor diet.
That's already happened, where have you been the last decade?
Pelosi, President Obama, and the rest need to re-focus on the ECONOMY! You do not keep the economy moving by scaring every investor into their shell. Even the European SOCIALISTS know that maxim.... That is why the Soviets binned communism. That is why the German SPD, back in the late 1950's, sent re-distribution of wealth policies into the dipsty dumpster along with the old coot Kurt Schumacher.
You get the Fat Cat to INVEST.....
Keynesian Economics was a dud in the 1920's, a dud in the late 1950's-1960's, a dud in the late 1970's.... what makes these idiots thinks it will work now? Of course supply side also sucks, but it gets jobs going.
And no, I am not a bleeding one percenter......or a republican, either.
The big problem with you post. The fat cats as you call them Have had over 8 years to invest. Thats with the Bush tax cuts. Where did they invest? Overseas because the products are almost tarriff free. The gov. including both parties have sold us out. The "fat cats" as you call them have bought influnce ie. Grovers pledge. This allowes them maxim profit. That is what you do in business. I have owned a small business for 26 years. I try to maximize my bottom line every day. But I don't do it by hurting my fellow Americans. That is the problem in this country. To much me,me,me. It starts in DC and trikels down. What happened to changing tariffs to protect the American business and workers?
I'll tell you. The American business man went for cheap unskilled labor. They moved overseas. That caused them to invest in politicans so the tariffs wouldn't be raised, thus cutting the profits they wanted from overseas cheap labor. Has anyone seen what Apples Chinese manufactures do? Has anyone read about the alumium dust they breath in when manufacturing your new I-phones? Would that be allowed in America? By cutting and or elimating tarriffs big business has circumvented all the rules for the safety of its employees. There by maximizing profits. Look at Apples stock over the last 2 decades. After they moved all manufacturing overseas their profits and stock prices went sky high. This is what people start business for. To make money. But when thoose profits come at expence of the American worker, the American vetren and active soldier, thats wrong. For 2 hundred years we as Americans have worked and died to build a great nation. It hase taken the coperations and their investments in politicians only 30 years to bring America to a 2 world consumer nation. If you disagree go count how many Made in America products you find. Then do the math and figure the percentages of American verses Chinese goods. The only thing that we lead the world in anymore is Miltary mite. Sooner or later that will change. DC has gotten us into somuch debt. Sooner or later we wont be able to buy new planes, rockets etc. Then the corperations will get the gov. to allow them to sell to other countries wholesale. That will spell the dome for America as a world leader. So for my children and now my grandchildren I have bought land taught them to raise food and learn to shoot and protect what is theirs. With harm that DC has done in 30 years. What will America look like in another 50 years. We will be like the founding fathers were before July 4th 1776. Slaves to the wealthy. I am taking steps to keep my family independant. We also have agreed to vote out all encumbate in congess & senate this fall. If we learn anything from the ruling is that WE the PEOPLE need to get control of DC. With all the paid ads by the Super PACS you cant get a real take on canidates. Lets nullify the big money by voting out ALL incubinates. Lets as Americans put our own term limits in place. This is what the founding fathers did when they wrote the Constitution. We as voters have not taken advantage of it. We don't need and will never get term limits passed. We allready have them. People vote for the best American not for any party. Read, research, meet all the people that want to represent you. Vote for the one that you agree will do the best job. If your current rep. is not doing his job git rid of him/her. It's time we the people take back Gov. from th e rich and powerful. The only way is to vote ALL the current politicians in DC out, no matter what party. Then is things aren't better ,next time do it again and again adn again. If we use our vote and tell any person that goes to DC "do our work" not the work of Grover our any single person or entity. Then we might take back DC. If not you better prepare you decendents.
Pelosi, President Obama, and the rest need to re-focus on the ECONOMY! You do not keep the economy moving by scaring every investor into their shell. Even the European SOCIALISTS know that maxim.... That is why the Soviets binned communism. That is why the German SPD, back in the late 1950's, sent re-distribution of wealth policies into the dipsty dumpster along with the old coot Kurt Schumacher.
You get the Fat Cat to INVEST.....
Keynesian Economics was a dud in the 1920's, a dud in the late 1950's-1960's, a dud in the late 1970's.... what makes these idiots thinks it will work now? Of course supply side also sucks, but it gets jobs going.
And no, I am not a bleeding one percenter......or a republican, either.
Oh yes you are a one percenter. It's like saying that that races should be seperate but equal and that you are not a bigot. It doesn't wash.
All anyone wants to do is throw political darts at one another. Can you not see the forest for the trees? If this health care plan is so good, why aren't our elected officials going to be part of it. Why is there health care so much better than ours? Why do they get a raise every year (even if they forget to vote on it) and it's never based on any kind of performance like you and me? You people draw lines in the sand over political ideaoligy and party affiliation when you should be outraged at the hypocrisy of either party! Can't you see that nothing gets accomplished when all anyone does is play the blame game? Grow up, stop whining like some 3rd grader and FIX IT! Why not offer ideas instead of complaints. We all know the problems - duh - show some real intellect and propose/discuss an answer instead of showing your lack of it by constantly playing he said/she said.
It is not how rich a Corporation becomes,it is how they distribute their wealth
2cents /I guess that you don't understand ,but our Representatives,all of them have an improved form of what has just been voted in.The Western European Nations started getting this form of Medical Coverage in the late 19th century.and have been improving it with amendments .We are only expecting what our Reps. have .Is it too much to expect that we receive what our employees,political reps. have been receiving for many years and have never considered getting rid of?
Thanks listoire but I think I understand perfectly. An "improved" version now enjoyed by our reps would be the understatment of the decade. Umm I call your attention to SS, Medicaid/care USPS just to name a few as shining examples of how our fiscally irresponsible gov't handles its programs designed to benefit the masses. I try not to be too cynical but if you really think this is designed to help or improve your quality of life, you sir are optimistic at best, and have your head in the sand at worst.
listoire
what do you think obama is doing? do you realize how much, the insurance companies, the unions, and pharmaceuticals are going to rake in? your statement is a lie my friend, what he is doing or did was rewarding those who contributed heavy to his campaign, how hard is that to figure out? one hand washes the other, you seeing it yet? i read the 2700 page bill and let me tell you, their going to chip the people oh yes they are read the bill, learn, health care cost have already went up 27% since this started, affordable for who, they threw a few bones in there, its not going to be what you think it is, death panels of 15 non elected people saying and naying what care you get, its rationed, but everybody knows it all like i said i read it twice because i couldnt believe what i read the first time, what a pork filled bunch of bull sh-t, it fixes nothing in reality but takes our money and hands it over to the 1% believe you me. why do you think there was no torte reform because trial lawyers are the third leg of the stool and they didnt want to pi ss them off, big contributers, the democrats left it out on purpose you learning anything yet?
IMHO
Goverment has no morals or ethics. Their primary motive is to keep their cushy jobs. To them, you are just a number, even though you pay their salary.
Politicians have even less morals or ethics. Their primary motive is to get re-elected. Most of them have never run a business. Most of them can't balance a check book. An the only private companies to possibly have more convicted lawbreakers is the NBA.
Ah, "trickle down" economics. That's about as relative as birther statements. You still don't realize that the only person in the Republican party who ever used that term is now a Liberal on the Democrat ticket, right? Here's a hint, he was a member of Reagan's staff and was fired shortly after (Like Eric Holder is about to be probably).
wheels...
Right every working body who owns a bank account surely got it from "the pockets of the poor".
Go occupy something.
Love this constant "pox" on both parties diatribes. There are plenty of differences between the party positions to make informed decisions at the polls. Informed is the key and that requires effort and thought while discounting the talking heads who do not even disguise the misinformation they purvey on a daily basis per their monied handlers.
That's no accident. According to a GOP insider, that "pox on both sides" is very much part of their plan...
from Truthout some time back...
http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3079:goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult
Combine that with voter suppression laws, and you have the whole of their game plan.
Its very Clear the incompetent democratic leadership, wants their incompetent government systems to take over another industry. Are the Insurance company's perfect? No. But Americans should quit whining and listening to shallow politicians offering easy money and solutions. Insurance companies would be better, if they was tort reform. Whats driving up costs is trial lawyers.
We have to take personal responsibility for our own health through exercise and eating right. The key to better health is prevention. Not more benefits after your already ill.
RD I agree almost entirly with your post. Except the eating right part. The corperations have taken over the food industry. They control gov. which controls the FDA. This allows them to geneticly change the food we eat, add dyes, flavors and any other additves to maximize profits. We have an overweight population due to lack of good food. There is somuch junk in the food we consume. Most Americans have little or no choice. Corperations have bullied the small farmer and producer out. They use the Gov. to do it. Like paying people not to farm. This cuts down competion thus allowing large Agra-corps to control the markets. How many people read the lables of what you eat? How come my TV set is labled where it was made, but my can of soup isn't? They dont want you to know where. I grew up farming my family has been farming for almost 150 years in NY. Only a small number still do. I am not one. I know my uncle's beef cows dropped $300 per head the day after NAFTA was signed. Why do you think the Gov. has included so many South American countries into NAFTA? After Clinton signed the bill, the Argentines started shipping their beef to Mexico, then it came into the US tarriff free. So alot of Mexican farmers lost also and the corperations that bought and processed the beef made even more money. All because they were able to get DC to do what they wanted. So we raise 75% of our own food. With 7 sisters and 4 brothers only 2 are overweight and unhealthy, the 2 that don't garden or perserve their foods. But they love to come and share mine. So America wake up and smell the tomato blossoms.
RD I don't care how well you eat or how much you exercise, you are not immortal, you will die one just like the rest of us. Healthy diets and lifestyles will not stop diseases like cancer, or other illnesses that lurk in our D.N.A. Good health care can make our lives more comfortable but it will not alter the fact we will all die one day.
The odds of a woman developing breast cancer has a powerful genetic component. There's no "prevention" that applies.
How would you propose to prevent brain tumors?
I have a pacemaker. The reason is that I have an electrical failure in my heart that causes the lower chamber to fail to contract. I do not have arterial issues, no clots. I have very low cholesterol. My problem is exclusively caused by a failed electrical circuit.
According to my cardiologist, nothing I could have done would have prevented this problem from developing, but it very nearly killed me.
Let me clarify since I fully expect you to ignore previous mention: this isn't about heart attacks. This isn't cholesterol. It's not too many pork chops floating around in my bloodstream. It's an electrical problem, and based on some family history, I can trace similar problems back three generations. Treatable, yes: preventable? Not as far as my cardiologist can tell.
Under the existing American health care system, if I lose my insurance - say, I get laid off and exhaust COBRA eligibility -- I now have a pre-existing condition that any future insurer will refuse to cover.
The last hospital bill for this problem was $90K. If I can't buy insurance, I'll lose my home.
That's the American way, and that's why we need to fix it.
Rorschach
And you don't think the democrats don't do the same kinds of things. Seems to me the democrats are better at it. How else could the gain a supermajority?
Re-read the article, DB.
And here's your challenge: Go find evidence of similar Democratic schemes to the GOP's intentional mind-fvck game described above.
If you're going to deflect, deflect apples to apples.
Rorshck, One example - the Social Dems in Wisconsin walk out on a vote, lose - then go to court then petition for a recall. They still are fighting that. Another example - BHO holds private meetings forming the ACA bill with Dems only, purposely excluding Republicans from his WhiteHouse meetings. Keeps shouting down GOP saying they have no plan or proposals - ignoring reality. Dems create a bill so long and complex, no one can understand it, judge on it, or implement it. It is a Gordian Knot which we will never unravel. Sort of like the minds of those who vote for Social Democrats.
1st. Take Religion out of Politics for there are too many so-called Christians that reject the Words of Christ and his Disciples (Mark, Luke, Matthew).
2nd. Curtail donations (bribes) to ALL Politicians regardless of Party.
3rd. Don't vote a strict Party Line regardless of Party. Vote for the Lesser Evil if you can.
4th. Restart who can be a Candidate regardless of Party. Now only the ones with plenty of money can run for either a State or a Federal Office. It is the time to rekindle those "Mr. Smiths goes to Congress, goes to the White House, goes to the Governors Office, or to a State Legislature", i.e. those that are HONEST and NOT in Politics to get rich off the backs of the Citizens.
If we do not be vigil, we can end up as a Totalitarian Country such as under Hitler or Stalin or the Taliban (where religious clerics ruled).
PS: Bring this Country into the 21st Century rather than back to the 19th Century. We, simply, should not condone a lost of any Freedom, Rights, or Gains fought for and died for since the early to late 20th Century such as Civil Rights, Voter Rights, the right to work in a safe job, Wages, Environmental concerns, etc. that are on the cutting block as we speak.
I'm just gonna get on here like many others and bitch about Obama but offer nothing constructive of my own. Yeah, that's what I'll do.
Success!
Slight correction in your statement Kannin - per the polls (source CBS 6/28/2012), "Since it was enacted over two years ago, the Patient Protection and Affordable
Care Act, President Obama's signature piece of legislation, has never been
especially popular with the American public. Just 34 percent approve of the
health care law, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll released earlier
this month, while 48 percent disapprove. Other recent polls also show more
oppose the law than support it."
48% is not a majority.
Further, "In fact, despite Americans' mostly negative views of the health care law
generally, there is broad public support for some specific elements of the law.
A March CBS News/New York Times Poll found 85 percent favor the requirement that
insurance companies cover people with pre-existing conditions, nearly seven in
10 support allowing children under 26 to say on their parent's health plan, and
77 percent back the part of the law that offers discounts to reduce the Medicare
prescription drug coverage gap, commonly known as the donut hole."
So Americans support the overall effects of the law, just not the requirement that everyone have health insurance. It's not perfect, but only 19% believe that not having this law is better.
"A CBS News poll shows that ObamaCare's popularity has fallen off dramatically since the day of its passage. It appears that Americans aren't as inclined to reward politicians for defying them as the Democrats had hoped. The CBS News poll shows that ObamaCare is now 10 percentage points less popular than it was on the day of its passage. On March 22, Americans opposed ObamaCare by 11 points (48 to 37 percent). Now they oppose it by 21 points (53 to 32 percent). "
53% is a majority.
Your posted poll is dated April 2010. It is not currently valid. USA today poll 6/29/2012 says 44% unfavorable, 37% favorable, 19% other, 4% margin of error.
Keep spinning,Kannin. Maybe you'll start believing it.
Latest Polls:
Monday, June 25, 2012: The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 54% of Likely U.S. Voters at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care bill, while 39% are at least somewhat opposed. This includes 43% who Strongly Favor repeal and 28% who are Strongly Opposed to it.
54% is also a majority.
I'd like to know how many of the people polled actually understand it, and how many ONLY know what superPAC lies & misconstrued stuff has been said about it. I've seen people posting on the internet they think that unemployed poor people are going to be put with a tax lien under the health care bill. *rolls eyes* Apparently that person didn't even realize that unemployed poor person would probably finally qualify for medicaid under the health care law, OR at the very least be eligible for subsidy, OR if nothing else, exempt from the penalty because of their financial situation!!!
If people don't even understand this. What else don't they understand about the health bill, but still have an opinion about if it should be repealed. *roll eyes*
Keep in mind that "against it" also includes the people who don't think the law goes far enough.
Amoreena - Do you feel that citizens should be able to show a rudimentary understanding of current issues, politics and history, and the logical faculties to make intelligent choices before being allowed to vote?
That would be voter suppression.
Then polls based on the opinions of uninformed people are probably an accurate predictor of elections based on the votes of uninformed people.
Congress doesn't even understand it and they're the fools that voted for it. I believe Nancy Pelosi said numerous times that she hadn't read it, that Congress would have to vote for it before they could read it. Kind of puts the cart in front of the horse, doesn't it? And that's why we have such a mess on our hands today.
Bob in KC you are so right. They add somany ammendments to bills they become so complicated, No one can understand them. I have watched CSPAN and the ammendments that are put forth to be included a single bill is staggering. Alot of them have NO connection to the orignal bill.
Bob and George - You are both so right! Botox Pelosi didn't need to read it. She, and the rest of Congress are totally and completely EXEMPT from this monstrosity of a bill. Why does it escape so many people that if the bill is so good for the American people, why is it not good enough for Congress?
What a partisan hack. Obamacare basically handed the American people to the health insurance companies on a silver platter. They sold us out instead of pushing for a public option or single payer.
Obama has been the summation of the worst traits of both parties. All of the fiscal irresponsibility of a Democrat, with all of the Corporate puppetmasters of a Republican. And you know what sucks worse? Romney is the EXACT SAME THING.
Maybe we can get some real candidates in 2016...this year I'll just flip a coin I guess.
Anyone who thinks the GOP was going to EVER let single payer/public option happen in 2009/2010 is dreaming - at best. You may find ACA sorely lacking, and a lot of people do, but this fact remains: this represents THE first step toward reform... first time anyone's even gotten this far. That fight's nearly a century old. Those who'll oppose single payer aren't going down singing Kumbaya.
What we got is the direct result of Republican dedication to keeping the insurance companies in business.
Look back to Clinton's attempt to reform healthcare in the '90s. What we have today is nearly identical to the Republican counterproposal from that round -- the Dole plan.
If you're looking for the guys who're playing us, I'd suggest you hold the Republican Party responsible.
It may have been a step, but a step in the wrong direction. Instead of helping us find a way out, Obama sold us. The only reason the Republicans are against it is because they didn't think of it first. I know the Republicans aren't doing anything either. Both parties need to go, they're just lobbyist puppets at this point.
Forcing everyone to participate in this broken system is not a step in the right direction at ALL.
Remydon
In a sense yes, but in the end no. Although they like the idea of increasing their insurance base, they found out quickly that if they don't increase their insurance base they won't survive 3 years once the full extent of the law is in place in 2014.
I am aware of a number of Health insurers that have left health insurance by selling their business to a larger company. Some were for profit and some were non-profit. What the ACA stated was that they wanted to increase competition. Less insurers means less competition.
thisguy-3398482,
Really? We Democrats do not see it that way.
Tell me, where is the Republican health care plan? Yes, I saw a Ryan plan, which never got out of committee, which by the way was a joke. Worthless vouchers. Was there something else we missed?
What a bout a budget? Since the Republicans took office in 2011, no budget has been put forth.
Let's talk about jobs. Since the Republican's took office, not a single jobs bill has been put forth. Result, the recovery is slowing down.
Debt. The Republicans have spent like drunken sailors every chance they can get. Reagan/G.H.W. Bush increased the debt by a factor if eight. Clinton reduced it and left us a surplus and created 22 million jobs. G.W. Bush more than doubled the debt and spent the surplus, got us in two wars, paid for those wars with the China credit card, lost 8 million jobs and tanked the economy.
Republican's have had their shot to do the right thing. They have failed to deliver on a single promise they made. Remember the "Contract with America?" None of it was done. Zero, zip, nada, nyet.
And you call us idiots for not seeing it your way? We know who the idiot is.
Way to miss the point idiot. He said Democrats are the SAME as Republicans, and you just spelled it out for him. Total control of congress from 2008 to 2010? Check. No budget? Check. @!$%#ty economy? Check. Record deficit? Check.
Seems like they do the same things you claim the Republicans do. On the bright side, you are half right. You're just too stupid to see that your side is no different.
Remydon-2325813,
Yep, and we found another one.
Thank you. :-)
I would like Remydon to identify the GOP players who favor single payer, universal healthcare, a public option.
Please identify as many as possible.
None. Did you miss the part where I said neither party was worth a damn? Why is it when someone criticizes one party, all the partisan lemmings immediately assume you are a zombie for the other side.
Just Wondering said it all. President Clinton is the ONLY president in the last 40 years to fix the economy. Thats why he is the ONLY democrate to serve 2 terms sence FDR. How did he do it? Simple raise taxes cut spending. WOW is that so hard. No on can argue the facts. In 8 years under his fiscal policies our Reaganomicis disaster economy went from the out house the ALMOST the penthouse. But then the Bushes STOLE the elections in Fla. Yes they STOLE it from the American people. By Jeb purgering the voter rolls. Then that wasn't enough so they came up with the hanging chad. Anybody want to dispute them apples. So when he was squandering Clintons surplus and it looked like he would be like his father 1 and done. Chaney cooked up WMD's and went to war. Shock and AWE. The US distroying another country on TV. WOW did that play great with voters. Then we got the bill. Now we look at the Chinese credit card and don't know what to do. Thats why congress doesn't come up with a budget. The have put us so far in debt they DONT know how to fix it. The numbers are so large the human mind can't comprehend. Proof the super commity that was supposed to come up with a plan, couldn't do it. So the provisions THEY the politicans put on raising the debt ceiling THEY couldn't even abide by. To fix they economy is SIMPLE! RAISE TAXES, CUT SPENDING. It worked for Clinton. Now we just need the branches in DC to doit. Then with a strong economy we can have a stronger work force and be able to pay for healthcare for all.
No, and that was after the fact anyway.
IF it's a case of "lesser of two evils", I fail to see how you can favor single-payer (with which I agree), yet have even a glimmer of belief that the GOP would ever let that come to pass.
The one thing that the GOP does extremely well (and horrifyingly effectively) is project their own illness onto their opposition. And, according to one of their own --- that's deliberate. That "they both suck" narrative was planted by the GOP.
Here is that story... and in all seriousness, if you're sick of business-as-usual you really should read this.
http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3079:goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult
The republican controlled house has produced budgets. They're in harry reid's private bathroom being used for toilet paper.
There really is no republican or democrat party, their the same snake with 2 heads that give you the illusion of 2 partys, they both are bought off by the banks, corporations, federal reserve, the richest 1% and the biggest buyer is the international banksters, weve been sold out, we were flushed down the old sewer by Reagan bush 1 clinton, bush2 and now obama, why doesnt anybody mention the n.d.a.a bill ole leroy snuck in or the ndrp? democrats republicans, a broken 2 party system that never did work since j.f.k
About all that Republicans can do these days is START A WAR because their benefactors (Defense Contractors) needs the money. At least one prior Candidate has even come out that he would instigate a "First Strike" (nuclear) at a perceived "enemy". Another past(?) Candidate hinted that a "Corporation" take over the Military (Libertarian).
Pelosi is filthy rich. Just check her tax returns and investments and you will easily see this woman has a lot of money. Check her family and background and you will easily see this woman comes from a long line of political elites. She has no comprehension of poor or even middle class and to believe she somehow represents anyone who isn't in her class is not only ridiculous but pure insanity.
No. Willard's the filthy rich one. Just check his tax returns. Oh wait, he won't give the last ten or so years. Only the most recent.
Joe Done,
She's not filthy rich at all. But for the sake of argument, let's say she is. Does that make what she says not true?
Willard is worth over $200 million, a lot richer than Pelosi and he can't even tell the truth about where he lives.
If by your standard, persons that most money are the worst liars, then Willard wins, easily.
You have to elect him to find out what he's for.
Maybe if I vote for Willard, he'll let me have a ride on his car elevator. I'm pinning everything on that. Would be so cool.
TheRealChris,
Oh, that was good. You get a bump for that one.
"She's not filthy rich at all. "
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are ya?
Pelosi is the peanut head who said "we have to pass the bill to see what is in it". She can't write or read. Pelosi is probably one of the most ignorant people in Congress. No wonder California is bankrupt - electing peanut brain fools!
Did you forget the rest of the quote? "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it, away from the fog of controversy." She was referring to the fact that Americans needed to experience it being implemented in order to see more than what was being touted in both pro- and anti- statements from politicians. (sources: you tube and politifact)
She did say what you posted but only half the whole statement is ever quoted. Got to admit that providing fodder like that was not her best moment.
Matthew-2771918,
Could not have said it better than myself. Good job educating the peanut head.
No, he left that out intentionally. It spoils the narrative.
What "fog of controversy"? The American people and the Republicans were trying to SEE THROUGH THE FOG created by the Democrats behind closed doors. Remember the Bill came up for a finale vote on Christmas Eve at 0200(2 AM). And that was only after the Democrats used Reconciliation to pass it. Which was AGAINST SENATE RULES according to Sen. Robert Byrd,A DEMOCRAT. He wrote what has become known as the BYRD RULE. Look it up. You won't believe what I post. So read it yourself.
Do you guys remember the Kornhusker Kickback? How about the Louisiana Purchase? How about the 30 or so DEMOCRATS in the Stupak Group in the House? Those were deals made with DEMOCRATS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!! That is were the "fog of controversy" came from,the DEMOCRATS themselves!! It looks like the Democrats,Pelosi and Reid,had more trouble with their own Party and NOT THE REPUBLICANS!!
I state again that pelosi is from San Fran and is THEE worst THING that ever happened to California. Go figure that democrats elected her house speaker (almost hurled when that happened) now as minority speaker she STILL can't keep her dumb as*ed mouth shut...What's worse is she has no idea that she's the biggest idiot in the dem party as well as the country!!
LuvHeat,
You stand corrected because there are bigger idiots. Go look in the mirror. Pelosi is spelled with a capitol letter "P".
If she is so stupid, and she got the healthcare law passed (with Harry), then how is she able to outsmart all those purported "smart" Republicans? If what you say is true about her being the dumbest person in the Democratic party, then since she got the ACA passed right past the Republican's objections, then she must still be smarter than any of the Republicans.
Care to explain that?
Yawn.
What's hard about being smarter than a Republican?
TheRealChris,
Nothing.
That's the short answer.
Ror, Chris, and Just, you guys are GREAT! I am thoroughly enjoying your posts!
Hey 12.1, read 11.5. It wasn't brains that enabled Pelosi to help the ACA pass, it was backroom dealings. Oh by the way, Stupek got screwed royally, just like some groups that supported the ACA -- can you say Catholic bishops.
Yes, it's a TAX
I can benefit from it by getting healthcare.
How do I benefit from a 1%er getting another $150,000 tax break? It will create my job?? where or when??
Calling this Affordablne Care is a joke...it still does not cover everyone. How are Americans going to pay the $2 trillion it will cost when we are already on the precipice of bankruptcy? We need to get 11 million people back to work to pay taxes which will also benefit the Social Security trust fund and Medicare. The Medicare tax will be raised on higher earners. Obama and Pelosi have created a class war to distract everyone from the big failures of his administration. It's all smoke and mirrors. This Act has so much burdensome reporting compliance regulations that small businesses can't afford to hire people, can't afford to pay for health insurance benefits for their employees so some will be laid off. Small business is and has been the driving force in the American economy. There is no "free" health insurance. What a joke. We will all wind up paying higher taxes. This constant drumbeat about driving down medical costs is a joke. We all want state of the art medical care but that costs money for research, for education of medical students and training for specialists....modern equipment like PET scans, MRI, etc.
Look at the bright side Jennifer. Obama is creating 16,000 new jobs at the IRS to enforce the
tax increase- oops, penalty.I literally GAG every time I see her in the news...ONLY san francisco would elect this fool to congress...just the hippie generation still trying to screw the US
There you go again with poor use of proper nouns. Writing at 4th grade level is not your strong suit is it?
Just Wondering Aloud banned, rereg of multiple accounter Bill in Mill Creek.
17 deleted, commieslayer flaming 'You miserable worthless slugs', 'nutwads', etc., never specifying who. 'You people' insults like that are always bad for discussion - it's grenade-trolling.
You're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor repeatedly.
Pelosi or any other person can say or do one thing now or ever if the GOP win's congress or Senate. Thank the Good Lord for Robert's vote.
Trickle down has never worked.The GOP keeps trying to sell this to the middle class the hole time there screwing them.The Americans need to wake up and vote all GOPS out""""
Whew. Reading posts from you democrat-communists ,oh never mind. It is not the hole in the donut, but the donut as a whole. hehehehehe. No wonder the mascot of the democrat-communists is a jackass. Thomas Nast had you slugs figured out early.
Repeal and replace is bull. If the Grand Obstructionist Party ever repeals it, you'll never hear about it again.
It would seem commieslayer is off his meds, again. Offer him sympathy. :-)
and
a straitjacketthe missing meds.But trickle up poverty that this Administration is working great!
@Jon Done, too be fair here there is probably not one on either side who is not filthy rich who is in congress you know!
At least they passed the STOCK Act.
Thank you Mr. President for believing in something and seeing it through, unlike Mitt Robbery. The true King of the 1%.
Mitt Robbery - this is the first I've heard that one and it's very fitting! ;)
You are ignorant of the truth...and blindly believe the spin of the democrats.
"spin"....
And you put your faith in media outlets like Fox - for truth?
Are you aware that Roger Ailes planned to launch Fox as a Republican mouthpiece way back when he worked for Nixon? No spin happening there, right, Jen?
Richard Nixon and Roger Ailes 1970s plan to put the GOP on TV
"And you put your faith in media outlets like Fox - for truth?"
Red herring, distraction, and FAIL.
When you refer to Barack Obama as the "King" you need to be sent back to American History "Boot Camp". America does NOT have KINGS. Never did. Never will! You must have been absent from school that day. Let me remind you and everyone else who thinks he "walks on water. makes the sun and moon rise and set, holds back the tides, etc.", he is nothing more than a Chicago Community organizer who by some fluke of our voting process wound up in the White House. One Big A-- Mistake America!
I cannot believe what I am reading! Why is it that the idea of something for nothing gets people so excited? Only the least intelligent person believes that they can get something for nothing. Health care is in the state it is in (which really is in very great shape in this country) because people wanted something for nothing. The unions kept promising more and more coverage for their rank and file with each passing contract. What did they think insurance premiums would do as more people got more coverage? Naturally, insurance premiums went up. This meant the insurance companies had more income and the doctors and hospitals got in on the act. In order to justify the increased medical costs the care provided became more elaborate. Any yet, you can walk into any hospital in the United States without any insurance and get treated. When your bill comes you can set up a payment plan that you can afford and after a period of time of making your affordable payments, many times a large portion of your debt is forgiven. All of this "noise" about healthcare is simply polititians pandering to people for votes. If we enact a "free" government health care system, who do you think will be paying for it? You will! In taxes, higher costs, and decreased coverage. Only the people who don't pay taxes will get anything and they already have medical assistance! Good grief! The communist life style didn't work when the Plymouth colony first started 500 years ago. In fact the idea of sharing equally darned near killed them all, if not for the Indians. Communistic ideas have failed miserably all over the world. Why would you think it would work now? Obama, Pelosi, and their ilk are horrible, nasty, two faced snakes in the grass for preying on the uninformed and unintelligent. The Republicans aren't much better with the pandering, but at least they are trying to protect the working people. Just like they have tried through out history. They started civil rights, freed slaves, and have fought for the little guy more than the Democrats ever could. Please don't try to take the high and moral road line with Obama, Pelosi, and company. All politics is dirty, it has to be in order to get legislation passed. What upsets me are the politicos who try to pretend they are God's gift! Let's all wake up and get rid of this albatross health care legislation before it destroys us all!
Kirk Weber,
Please, be kind to your readers. Take a writing class and learn what the value of a paragraph is for.
As for politician's pandering to their constituents for their votes: News Flash! That is what they are supposed to do.
Another news flash, Kirk: you're already paying for all of the "free" healthcare that the uninsured get. It's reflected in the rates healthcare providers charge for services, and in the rates you pay for insurance. You're right, there is no 'free lunch,' but you imply that the answer is to 'get rid of' all those healthcare 'freeloaders.' Interesting idea.....where exactly do you propose they go? Nowhere? Die at home? Maybe die in an institution somewhere so you don't have to see them? Maybe pretend they don't exist at all? Sorry, but we don't do that in this country.....we don't close the doors on the less fortunate and throw away the key. But maybe that's what you really want.....
Thinkingman,
I am NOT advocating throwing away the key to the door for the unfortunate. All I am suggesting is that there could be a dollar or two saved in the health care arena if able bodied (and able minded) people would get up and go to work. Yes, I can hear it now....where will they work?
They certainly won't be finding jobs if we keep taxing the people with the money who can expand businesses. Cut the taxes, keep them low, and let businesses grow. As the businesses grow people will get jobs. This is not an instant process but it does work.
I was complaining about the people who live off the government dole when the economy is robust. These people are still on the government dole. They won't go work at a minimum wage job. Can't make ends meet they say. As a physician (read business owner), if I had people who had bills with me paying just a little bit each month instead of just blowing me off, I would be thrilled and would do even more to try to help them get rid of their bill.
Maybe there is a barter arrangement we could make. Who knows? The thing is doctors, hospitals, and yes dare I say it, even big pharmaceuticals are not the mean nasty entities that the media would have you believe.
If I am going to be "forced" to pay for others to have health care, I would like to see those that are able do something in return. That's all
Isn't that W's idea of "a rising tide raises all boats"? Somehow, the top 1% have been riding on top of a tidal wave, while the rest of us are stuck in the mud.
Walk in any Hospital and get treated? Try it if you don't have insurance and drawing a nice salary. Surprise, surprise. Your bill from the Hospital could bankrupt most people. PS: Don't count on Medicaid or Medicare help. Application denied!
Even with Insurance, count on owing at least 20% of the total bill submitted to the Insurance Company or having a denial of treatment issued even if the treatment could save your life which, if elected, is borne solely by yourself. Been there, done that.
Robb 99, The Press is giving the King of All my money is oversea's , Mitt Robbery, a break why?? Why not pay your fair share of taxes, truly un-american.
Who said I'm not paying my fair share of taxes??
Do you support a public option???
If so, then please click the up arrow in the right corner
Oh please Rob ... A poll on a left-wing site like MSNBC (or a right wing one like Fox) has no validity.
But yet Kannin, in your posts at 3.6 and 7.4 you specifically cite a Rasmussen poll, which leans to the right without fail.
By your own admission then, a poll like that has no validity either.
Eyes - Your logic is faulty. It is true that polls are almost always biased by the way in which questions are asked. When you don't get to see the questions, and the pollster "interprets" the results for you, chances are excellent that you are just being manipulated.
Even so, professional polls at least try to reach a random cross section of the relevant population. When you abandon even that requirement, the results are going to be total garbage, rather than only 70% garbage.
Looks like Rob99 got THREE VOTES!!! THREE VOTES,HAHAHAHAHHA!! THREE VOTES IN an hour and 15 or so minutes!!!
Looks like you lose Rob99. To bad,so sad,your Dad.
No...it isn't. According to the reasoning you follow, you state that a poll on a site that you describe as left wing (granted, for the sake of argument) is invalid, but yet have no qualms citing a right-wing Rasmussen poll to try and make a point earlier in the thread. Your reasoning about result interpretation could also easily apply to Rasmussen. How do you know otherwise?
You can't have it both ways. If you chastise somebody for using a poll from a site that leans away from your views, then you have no credibility if you do the same thing citing a poll that somebody else doesn't hold with.
You made that point quite clearly with your response to Rob:
It's the "(or a right wing one like Fox)" statement that makes it very clear..."Rasmussen" could be exchanged for "Fox". It is what it is.
What Rob did hardly qualifies as any kind of "poll"...more in the nature of a Facebook "like" or "dislike". If one agrees with him and supports a "public option", they might be inclined to click on the arrow he notes. If not, then they won't.
Eyes - In polling, the group being polled is referred to by the statistical term "cohort". If the cohort is skewed, the results are invalid. If you went to an oncology center and polled the patients there, no matter how you asked your questions, you would conclude that cancer is the most pressing problem in the nation. Professional polls, by contrast, at least pretend that they are polling a random cohort.
It's that word "pretend" that will hang you every time.
Like I said, I really don't consider Rob's question as a bona-fide "poll". You don't either evidently, so we are in agreement on that point. It doesn't look like he has an overwhelming agreement to his question but there could be a number of reasons for that:
1. Simple disagreement with his statement from those who've read it.
2. A lack of readers to this depth in the thread, because usually, it's the statements in the top half of the first page that gather the most "for" votes. Many people get tired of reading after that point unless it's a particularly juicy topic.
Could be a few others also, but his "like" numbers stand as they are...no more, no less. Come back on this thread tomorrow or the day after and see how they may have changed...not likely to gain massive support after the initial publication...that's just the nature of the beast, but stranger things have happened.
Eyes - On this pleasant note of agreement between us, I bid you a good night.
I'd also suggest that who ever pays for the poll has a tendency to indicate the direction the poll is slanted.
The more and more the goverment does for us, the less freedom we have.... The men and women who built this great nation did it by being strong and working hard. We spent to much time looking at our neighbors plate to see if what our neighbor is eating is better than what we are eating. The green is always greener on the other side of the road. How about we work hard and pull our selfes up by the boot strapes. You will get more success doing that than waiting for the men and women in Washington to feed you. I remember a man not that long ago who said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country". We do not have a Democrat/ Republican issue, we have to many people blaming Barak Obama or Nancy Pelosi or George Bush..etc. We need to look at the man in the mirror and start asking these questions of oneself. Obama told us the business sector is doing good. We need to get in the water and dive into the rapids and work hard. We will make it....no matter who is in Washington! The real truth is Washington looks out for Washington, they are most concerned about the next election.
Sounds nice, but it's simply not true.
The whole purpose of government is to defend the poor and the middle class against exploitation from the rich. When you weaken government, you increase exploitation.
I wonder at all these people who hate the idea of any government in their lives, but have no problem with faceless corporations running their lives for them.
Actually as stated in the Constitution the role of Government is to "Provide for the common Defense and Promote the General Welfare".
It does not say PROVIDE for the General Welfare. It says PROMOTE the General Welfare.
Look up the difference between PROVIDE AND PROMOTE. BIG DIFFERENCE!!
There are only two valid reasons for government at any level: roads and defense.
"The whole purpose of government is to defend the poor and the middle class against exploitation from the rich"
As evidence of this comment, the public school system has failed miserably....
Byron Raum: Agreed. The U.S. Government was the source of Women's Rights, Voter Rights, Native American Rights, etc. that STATES would NOT provide. All of this occurred within recent times. We also have safety protection laws where we work, have protection from dangerous products, minimum wage laws, and much more. We need Health Care which is not curtailed by an Insurance Company, which is a norm, or extremely expensive. And we need not to bow the the AMA or any Drug Company.
Do you not support a public option??
Please click the right arrow in the corner
Still only THREE VOTES as of 9:54PM PST Rob99. I wonder if they are the same THREE people.
I suggest you have a losing cause. GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!
I agree IF the person or persons were fully able to pay the entire amount billed by the Doctor, Hospital, or Pharmacy without Medicare, 0r Medicaid, Or Insurance assuming the majority of the bills.
Think about this. Why do Drug Companies sell their drugs elsewhere for pennies on the dollar while we bear the costs here in the U.S.? For example, a certain antibiotic sells for over $900 dollars per 11 day treatment of one pill per day here when the exact same pill sells for $5 dollars a pill in Canada? $55 versus $900. Doesn't make much sense.
We could listen to the wicked witch from the west give her opinion or we could listen to a man in his own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg9m1F8B2_c&feature=fvwrel
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and I am a total libtard!!!
Fool you for years and you're a Republican.
In with partisan @55hatery, eh, Chris?
In with partisan Watermoon hatery, eh, ramire?
I know, you just missed it.
Watermoon, is this what disturbs you so much? You just can't stand the thought of Americans having affordable health care?
You have a public option in health insurance. You can buy it or not buy it. You can buy insurance that covers only catastrophic situations (read inexpensive but very good for horrible situations) or insurance that covers every hangnail (read very expensive and very good for any health related issue). As I said above, there is still care given to those with no insurance and there is medical assistance available for those that qualify. What other public option could you want?
Kirk Weber,
Seriously, take a writing class. You're not quite at the 4th grade level in your writing skills.
The public option we want is a single payer system. That is where we pay one department and the insurance companies must go to that department to get group of people they wish to insure.
You see, if you actually did see the ACA, you would know that. But you clearly never read it and therefore, you can't form an opinion that is cogent.
I wish we could have gotten the single payer system. The Gaseous Old Pharts that are in the pocket of the rich would hold your mother's oxygen supply to get their way against that. A single payer system would have reigned in the insurance industry by forcing them to compete with something other than their own brethern.
In the mean time this one will do, it has some really good features. I like the fact that they are forced by law to pay out 80 percent of the amount they take in paying for the care of those they are collecting from instead of giving those at the top of the heap in their org. millions of dollars in yearly bonuses.
I also like the part about them not being able to cancel your policy if they dont want to give you what you have been paying your monthly premiums for. Not to mention they can no longer call any and everything a pre-existing condition. And oh yeah no more lifetime caps on the amount of sickness you are allowed to have. And oh yeah parents can keep their children on a few extra year, which is much needed today after what the Gaseous Old Pharts did to our economy.
Oh and JWA I don't care what you think about my grammer skills.